Morality

[Peter44]

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Hi everyone, first post and not sure which topic area to put this in, or forum etiquette, its not really a question but something for discussion, but here it goes.

Its basically a concept I have been grappling with for a while. For those of us who aren't religious or live in secular societies, it would appear that their is a significant correlation with the decline in morality, and the decline in religion. In the past In my country, Christianity provided a "moral guideline" if you will for how we should live our lives. And through the fear of hell, or living in religious society or whatever, it kept people in line/ under control through these guidelines. It would appear that as people have lost faith, their moral standards have declined dramatically, many adopting a mentality of "why". That is to say, "why is it wrong" "why shouldn't I behave like this" "why should you tell me whats right and wrong". Which from an atheistic/agnostic viewpoint, it is very difficult to tell them otherwise, as if there is no God and if religion is a farce, then who is to say that the way they are living/behaving is wrong?

At the same time the whole concept of morality and right and wrong comes from religion/religious teachings. So apart from religion, there isn't really any other "guidelines" for us to go off. Even religion itself or even christianity seems to have deviated somewhat from the bible in order to keep its following in modern society. What some sects consider immoral, others would consider to be okay in the modern world.

So I guess what im getting at can we have morality within modern secular society? Or is religion the only real way to keep us all in line? And from an atheist viewpoint, can anything really be considered as immoral? Even if we see man made laws, most of it seems to derive from religion, do not kill, do not steal etc. Also perhaps highlights the concept that religion itself was a basic understanding of man in old times, of law an order. And that a system had to be in place to keep us all in order. otherwise we would be running riot "doing as we please."

Apologies if this is a little bit all over the place, but would appreciate some thoughts.... thank you.

This really is a misnomer and shouldn't be considered in any way as a realistic understanding of religion or belief in a God.

For a start Buddhism (which has no god) is the only religion that focuses completely on ethics and morality.

Secondary early religions prior to paternalism focused much more on females and security and doing good to each other.

Thirdly morality and ethics plays a very small role in Judaism Christianity and Islam..

Often the focus is on dogma not on ethics the Bible the Torah and the Koran only have to be read in part to recognise that.

The ten commandments themselves (which form part of these main God focused dogmas) only includes morality and ethics in less than 50%. Most emphasis is on belief not morality.
Here is a run down of one version:

1.You shall have no other gods before me. Nothing to do with morality.

2.You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Again nothing to do with morality.


3.You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Nothing to do with morality

4.Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Nothing to do with morality

5.Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
Not really to do with morality just dogma, mother and father could be axe murderers.

6.You shall not murder. Moral and ethical

7.You shall not commit adultery. Not clear why its a moral issue.

8.You shall not steal. moral and ethical

9.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Ethical

10.You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
This last is not really ethical or moral as its related to thought crime and is actually impossible and unrealistic.

So there we have in the paternalistic tradition that the basic tenants laid down for behaviour are only 40% moral or ethically focused.

This really is sad. on top of that of course the Bible and the Torah and the Koran are littered with instructions of when its appropriate to ignore this 40% and do what ever is needed to support belief I this corrupt and pathetic religious dogma.

We still have deluded indoctrinated individuals who seem to think relion has something to do with morality.

Its just unbelievable.