RE: Anyone here a Category 7?
September 28, 2018 at 7:39 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2018 at 7:51 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 28, 2018 at 7:08 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:My living room has people, guess that means it has being. Does that mean that it is a being? Notice how you've altered your terms from is to has? You're combining the part whole issue with an absurd level of idiosyncrasy at this point, all to avoid a defining feature of pantheism than differentiates it from simply believing that the universe exists.(September 28, 2018 at 6:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The universe isn't a being. People are and have beings. Investing the universe with that concept is what brings it closer to the set of other beings we call gods.
I think you're arguing with the dictionary. You also seem to be forgetting that (to the pantheist) everything that is an aspect of the universe is an aspect of God. Do rocks exist in the universe? Then God has rocks. Are there calcium deposits on those rocks? Then God has calcium deposits. Are there people in the universe? Then God has people. Do people have being? Then God has being. In the pantheist conception you are looking at the whole and nothing but the whole. There is no such thing as a part. A part is a handy tool for us to make sense of shit, but in Spinoza's conception looking at a single part is (in the grand scheme) a grave omission.
It ascribes to the universe terms and attributes amenable to classification as a god, and insomuch as those terms were anthropomorphization when applied to gods..they are the same when applied to a universe.
Quote:Also, the universe is --and anything that is has being, and (in that way) is a being. People have written entire books on what being actually may mean. Your post misses Spinoza's meaning.The most trivial use of the word. This statement only means "the universe exists". When I say that I am a being, and when a person claims that the universe is a being..they mean more than that. Having being and being a being..your earlier statement and central to pantheism, are substantially different meanings for the word. Tell me, if you heard that an alien being had come to earth - would you be looking for an inert clump of rock? No, ofc not.
Quote:I can't explain pantheism any more than I have. I feel like at this point, for me to go any further would be to drift into grimy apologetics. I think pantheism is an admirable and accurate way to conceive of the whole. I like it... much the same way some people like Buddhism but are not Buddhists. I like pantheism but am not a pantheist. For the ardent defense you require, you need to find a genuine pantheist. I've done all I can do here.You do fine. It's not your fault that pantheism is silly and requires grimy apologetics all to say nothing in particular about gods.

Just to be thorough
Quote:In philosophy, being refers to the existence of a thing. Anything that exists has being. Ontology is the branch of philosophy that studies being. Being is a concept encompassing objective and subjective features of reality and existence. Anything that partakes in being is also called a "being", though often this usage is limited to entities that have subjectivity (as in the expression "human being"). The notion of "being" has, inevitably, been elusive and controversial in the history of philosophy, beginning in Western philosophy with attempts among the pre-Socratics to deploy it intelligibly. The first effort to recognize and define the concept came from Parmenides, who famously said of it that "what is-is". Common words such as "is", "are", and "am" refer directly or indirectly to being.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being
As a minor aside, recall your earlier efforts to classify the word "god" as a title, and then the comparison to kingship. At every step of the way you have anthropomorphized the universe, while ardently claiming that this is not central to the claim that the universe is a god..or "deserves" to be called something, in fact..even, deserves worship and adulation and reverence. It may all be subtle, seductive, and compelling (at least to you)..but that's why we do it so often.
I see pantheism as a trivial bit of semantics with a goal towards rescuing a word for something we dreamt up in ignorance. That there was some being, like a god. No more, no less. It fails even on this pathetically low bar count.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!