RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
November 22, 2020 at 4:50 pm
(This post was last modified: November 22, 2020 at 4:53 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 22, 2020 at 11:59 am)Klorophyll Wrote: Actually, we're only interested in the assertion in bold, for which you provided no satisfactory explanation whatsoever, forget about the other thing. Until you provide an explanation, let's go with the appearances of things, it's more probable than not that an observed tendency towards teleological thinking points to the object of teleology -god.I see that you decided to retract one of your asserted facts - no matter.
You have yet to get past the point of children's tendencies being more than a brute fact of what children do. It's no surprise to me that children describe the world as they see it in human terms. Seems like it might go with the territory of being human. You think it means more.
How, a giant mystery. I think you should reread the thread - because the comment above goes past a disagreement regarding facts and deeply into the territory of a bold faced lie. I did...of course...offer explanations. None of them had any allah, however, so you didn't like them.
If you demanded a chocolate cake and I gave you a couple vanilla cakes...it wouldn't be accurate to say that you'd been given no cake. Just didn't get the one you wanted.
So let's start...again, at the very bottom. Children ascribe purpose to natural phenomena. They could do this because they're hilarious little fantasy machines and see what doesn't exist, or they might do this because a natural teleology is conceivable. I suspect that it's a bit of both.
You?
Quote:With a god the notion of a soul becomes perfectly conceivable. If there is no soul, that is, an immortal part of us, then there is no afterlife by definition.Who cares whether you have a soul or whether you have something to look forward to? To hear you lot tell it, most of us who (allegedly) do have souls don't have anything to look forward to, anyway.
If we change a fact about the chicken god, chicken may acquire a soul, and thus they may have an afterlife to "look forward to".
You insisted that without a god you were no different than a battery. That much is laughably and demonstrably false.
Quote:The existence of god isn't exactly equivalent to the existence of a third person in the room.. and you already know that.. why come up with this half-baked comparison. There is a causal relationship between people and God, God caused the existence of people -regardless of how many events it took to create them. The third person in the room with us is exactly like us. God is not like us.It's precisely equivalent to the conjecture that without god, there would be no difference between this or that. Gods aren;t a difference making property - but asserting that..if a god left the room..you and a battery (or you and I) would be identical is exactly where this assertion goes. If you don't believe that, then you don't believe your own assertion.
-Which is great...because it's ridiculous on it's face.
Quote:Of course I could do this. But this is not what we're discussing here. Absent any god, the universe is really without purpose for all these people who were victims of these Bad Things. The existence of god does change a lot for them. Of course I can find purpose - I, who happens to be luckier than all these poor victims - in helping the poor victims, but what about purpose for these victims themselves?Could? Could but don't? You leave me wondering what your life is supposed to mean with a god.
Absent a god, there is nothing for example one can say (or do) to consolate the mother of a -raped then butchered- innocent little girl, nothing. No amount of effort in this life will make it up for here. She can only find hope and purpose in the idea of hell for the rapist, and heaven for her daughter.
And this does nothing to my assertion about children and their tendencies, I already said we're only interested in the tendency, not what shape their tendencies and dreams may take. And my bet would be if you tell a random sample of children about some really tragic story involving some of these Bad Things, a good proportion - even if not taught anything about religion - will tell you they can only wish for the criminal some kind of eternal torture, and the victim some form of eternal bliss, like flying with unicorns or swimming in a pool of ice-cream.
You tell me that absent a god your life is without purpose, I rattle of some things that people find purpose in, things you mentioned...and you nope out. Perhaps your life truly is purposeless...but you must understand that this is a you problem?
Anywho, there are plenty f things that you could do for suffering people. I suspect you have as much interest in that as you have in any other non-god thing. This is one of the things about your god concept that irks me to no end.
You excuse yourself for being worthless and uninterested in becoming worthy on account of it.
(November 22, 2020 at 2:24 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Sorry, still catching up here. Is @Klorophyll s argument: children believe in the supernatural, therefore god exists?I don't think that it's so important that...if he believed otherwise, he would think it was some indication that there were no gods...so, no. It's just another one of a barrel of darts thrown at a wall to see which might stick.
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