RE: Christianity is heading for a full allegorization
January 26, 2022 at 5:21 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2022 at 6:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
In property dualism, everything is made of just one substance, reducible to just one substance. If a person thinks that there is more than one substance required, that there are things that don't reduce to substance a alone, that's not property dualism - it's substance dualism. Physicalism is or could be consistent with property dualism. That's the reason I don't see property dualism as a competing explanation to physicalism. It's not so much criticism, as a "yes, but".
The hard problem, imo, fits better with substance dualism - since it's supposed to be something no explanation of the physical mechanism(s), however complete, however predictive, however accurate - is contended to be able to answer. It's difficult to see how or why that would be the case if there is just the one type of substance, and "science substance"..no less.
That science or physicalism doesn't or can't address the hard problem - is a contention..not a fact of physicalism. I don't personally think it's incoherent - it certainly could have been the case that some other stuff, or some irreducible other property x, lead to our mind. That there was no way to produce a 1st person experience physically, for example. It just doesn't appear to be the case in actuality.
Epiphenomenalism, I think, could also be true - though I'd wonder in what sense mental events were incapable of having physical effects on other mental events - at least- which are themselves contended to be physical in at least some sense. Here, I think we're out of our depth. To what extent (if any) does the mind have control or effect on itself, let alone the rest of the physical world. I don't personally think it evolved to control itself, rather, as a model to control the system. It's capable of producing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person views. This is no different fundamentally from one camera looking out from a subject, one camera looking at the same subject, and many cameras internal and external to the subject looking in all directions and creating a map from their combined input. Try playing a video game in 2nd at an odd angle - you'll see why living creatures might not favor that view for their normal operation. 3rd is better (mmo view) - but much more difficult to create purely from a hardware perspective, let alone the processing.
If I pay attention, and close my eyes, I can put together a rudimentary 3rd. I had a prolonged experience of the 2nd, very compelling, but, for the most part, I waddle around in 1st - the natural arrangement of my sensory organs.
(I always think you've got a handle on the convo, emjay, always
)
The hard problem, imo, fits better with substance dualism - since it's supposed to be something no explanation of the physical mechanism(s), however complete, however predictive, however accurate - is contended to be able to answer. It's difficult to see how or why that would be the case if there is just the one type of substance, and "science substance"..no less.
That science or physicalism doesn't or can't address the hard problem - is a contention..not a fact of physicalism. I don't personally think it's incoherent - it certainly could have been the case that some other stuff, or some irreducible other property x, lead to our mind. That there was no way to produce a 1st person experience physically, for example. It just doesn't appear to be the case in actuality.
Epiphenomenalism, I think, could also be true - though I'd wonder in what sense mental events were incapable of having physical effects on other mental events - at least- which are themselves contended to be physical in at least some sense. Here, I think we're out of our depth. To what extent (if any) does the mind have control or effect on itself, let alone the rest of the physical world. I don't personally think it evolved to control itself, rather, as a model to control the system. It's capable of producing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person views. This is no different fundamentally from one camera looking out from a subject, one camera looking at the same subject, and many cameras internal and external to the subject looking in all directions and creating a map from their combined input. Try playing a video game in 2nd at an odd angle - you'll see why living creatures might not favor that view for their normal operation. 3rd is better (mmo view) - but much more difficult to create purely from a hardware perspective, let alone the processing.
If I pay attention, and close my eyes, I can put together a rudimentary 3rd. I had a prolonged experience of the 2nd, very compelling, but, for the most part, I waddle around in 1st - the natural arrangement of my sensory organs.
(I always think you've got a handle on the convo, emjay, always
)
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