Christianity is heading for a full allegorization

[emjay]

Well, they didn't know what was up with consciousness (and you could say that we still don't)....however, they didn't understand how any inanimate object could do the sorts of things we ascribed to conscious beings.  It wasn't until the 1700's that we figured out nerves were responsible for muscle contraction..rather than some as yet unobserved hydraulic system.  An idea that strongly influenced descartes study of the brain, positing both dualism, and the idea that the mind interacted with the brain and body through the pineal gland because it was involved in circulating cerebrospinal fluid.  The idea of a machine computer, or simulation, or modeling, or control...nada.  In that sense, mental properties or events probably did seem like the lone representative of a separate set.  Not so much anymore, which is why contemporary property dualism is whittled down to accepting that everything the brain is doing are material events, except for conscious experience itself, which is not a material event and has no effect on material events.

Effectively, a ghost in the machine.  Like I mentioned before, it's an intuitive notion.  Consciousness, however it's derived, misrepresents itself severely.

I guess I'll take this as license to leave the conversation with my tail between my legs, if that's okay with you? FWIW I've spent several hours now, and got myself even further out of sync, pondering all this (as per your post earlier) and just been tying myself in knots... what seemed clear, isn't/wasn't. So I think you're right, my epiphenomenalist view is probably untenable. Also, FWIW again, I do appreciate the logical teardown, however brutal it has felt, as it's all food for thought and I've got a lot of rethinking to do, but at this point I'd rather go to sleep than have another such teardown ;-), so yeah, time to call it a day I think.