RE: A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ?
March 3, 2022 at 12:12 am
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2022 at 12:36 am by Ferrocyanide.)
(March 1, 2022 at 11:57 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:(March 1, 2022 at 11:50 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: For me, the soul would be the “software” of the brain. We can compare it with a PC although the way a brain works and a PC works isn’t an exact match. The brain has more of a similarity to a ASIC (a specialized chip. For example a MPEG hardware decoder.).
Once your ASIC is damaged, then the software that it represents is gone.
So, I’m fine with the notion that our soul/spirit is non-material.
Then there is the question of god. Why are people claiming that it is non-material when it clearly decides to make things out of atoms?
At least claim it that it is made of some other type of particles and maybe it is from another world or universe.
Claiming that the god is non-material is equivalent to saying that it is a nothing or just an idea and one has not been built yet.
A poor idea of the soul. The soul is not immaterial, but it's contents are important beyond the dissolution of it's vessel.
What do you consider the soul to be?
And if you don’t like the word “soul”, just replace it with the word consciousness. Where does consciousness come from?
(March 2, 2022 at 12:06 pm)GrandizerII Wrote:(March 1, 2022 at 11:50 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: Claiming that the god is non-material is equivalent to saying that it is a nothing or just an idea and one has not been built yet.
Per your materialist worldview which is not shared by theists. If you want to make some argument against theism or whatever position you disagree with, you can't just keep begging the question. Explain why it is the case that non-material => non-existent, don't just state it as if it's very evident it is so.
I already gave the arguments.
I’ll simplify it for you:
We live in this reality. This reality has some stuff called space and has various other stuff called subatomic particles, you also have photons.
The way these things interact together is via 4 fundamental forces.
I consider all these things as material things and they exist.
You are asking why non-material things do not exist?
I don’t know. Ask the universe why number 5 does not exist and why a certain proton does exist.
Or, maybe this is a matter of definition. Some people include all non-material things in the set_of_things_that_exist and some people do not.
(March 2, 2022 at 12:21 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Yeah, there's a consensus that crosses boundaries of geography and time that sustenance, breathing, and blood...are somehow the thing(s) that hold animating power. A modern reader sees that they're trying to describe our metabolism. They had some quaint ideas about it, but that's what they were doing.
It was only in the failure of these very material explanations in point of fact that god botherers invented an alternate world where their folk beliefs were still true. Obviously... not everyone got the memo.
Well, we can’t blame ancient people for trying to explain how reality worked.
They observed that a breathing person is alive and when he dies, he stops breathing. So, they conclude that breathing gives life.
They observed that if you cut someone or some animal, eventually it bleeds a lot and dies. So, they conclude that blood has some life giving “power”.
In the Bible, we can see other traces of materialism as well. Look at all the parts about element 16. Hell is filled with pools of element 16. The jewish god’s breath smells like element 16 (I think this is for cleansing people). The jewish god pours element 16 on Sodom and Gomorah.
So, element 16 was used as a cleanser of some kind long ago. I have heard that Greeks would burn it to keep away pests.
Modern humans use element 17 (chlorine) as a disinfectant and products that release chlorine such as sodium hypochlorite, calcium hypochlorite, Trichloroisocyanuric Acid.
Sometimes, we use iodine or bromine.
There are plenty of other compounds for dealing with pests.
Of course, the Bible doesn’t mention any of these materials. The Bible is just a product of its time.