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The idea of God always existing
#19
RE: The idea of God always existing
So God's creation is the beginning of time and before that there is no time. However time is simply a construct we invented to measure things. The point is if God has always existed without explanation or without cause why is it invalid to postulate a non-deity based idea with the same quality? What makes it a unique claim to God?

You have offered up an idea about it but why again is this uncaused cause a deity? If we remove physics from the equation aka pre-universe who is to say that the uncaused cause in a sense is a fluctuation in matter or something else? How does one give personal characteristics or deity based characteristics to this cause? I will freely admit to you that science does not have the answer to the cause of the universe yet.

However arguing that an abstract idea was the cause isn't the same as proving that same idea. I freely admit that it is possible that a deity is the first cause I just don't see how it is possible to prove it. This is why I classify myself as an agnostic atheist. To be honest I don't see major differences between agnostics, deists, and atheists save the fact that two of them believe in some form of deity but don't necessarily have a way to prove it or even care to a lot of times.
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Messages In This Thread
The idea of God always existing - by Voltair - March 7, 2012 at 5:47 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by padraic - March 7, 2012 at 6:15 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Minimalist - March 7, 2012 at 6:48 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 10:25 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by IATIA - December 2, 2012 at 2:56 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Neo-Scholastic - March 7, 2012 at 6:51 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by michaelbest55 - November 29, 2012 at 5:40 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Cinjin - November 30, 2012 at 11:11 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Undeceived - November 30, 2012 at 3:41 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by genkaus - November 30, 2012 at 9:00 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Darkstar - November 30, 2012 at 10:44 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Undeceived - December 1, 2012 at 4:14 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Darkstar - December 2, 2012 at 12:39 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Undeceived - December 2, 2012 at 9:39 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Darkstar - December 2, 2012 at 10:04 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Undeceived - December 3, 2012 at 2:10 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by IATIA - December 3, 2012 at 2:43 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 3, 2012 at 7:36 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Undeceived - December 3, 2012 at 3:14 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 3, 2012 at 6:50 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Undeceived - December 4, 2012 at 1:59 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 4, 2012 at 6:40 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by downbeatplumb - December 6, 2012 at 2:25 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Kousbroek - December 2, 2012 at 7:41 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by genkaus - December 4, 2012 at 1:40 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Anomalocaris - March 7, 2012 at 6:51 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by MysticKnight - March 7, 2012 at 6:55 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Anomalocaris - March 7, 2012 at 7:02 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by MysticKnight - March 7, 2012 at 7:12 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Neo-Scholastic - March 7, 2012 at 7:06 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Anomalocaris - March 7, 2012 at 7:23 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by MysticKnight - March 7, 2012 at 7:35 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Anomalocaris - March 7, 2012 at 8:07 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by MysticKnight - March 7, 2012 at 8:49 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Neo-Scholastic - March 7, 2012 at 10:23 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by ThomM - March 7, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Voltair - March 7, 2012 at 11:15 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2012 at 12:45 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Skepsis - March 8, 2012 at 1:47 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Neo-Scholastic - March 7, 2012 at 11:48 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Voltair - March 7, 2012 at 11:54 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Neo-Scholastic - March 8, 2012 at 6:49 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by NoMoreFaith - March 8, 2012 at 6:54 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Neo-Scholastic - March 9, 2012 at 8:56 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2012 at 1:12 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Voltair - March 8, 2012 at 1:42 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2012 at 2:49 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by NoMoreFaith - March 8, 2012 at 6:33 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Voltair - March 8, 2012 at 2:54 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2012 at 2:58 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Ace Otana - March 8, 2012 at 8:05 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by MysticKnight - March 8, 2012 at 11:54 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by NoMoreFaith - March 8, 2012 at 1:12 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2012 at 12:21 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 8, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by picto90 - March 8, 2012 at 12:57 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 8, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by picto90 - March 8, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 8, 2012 at 1:16 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by picto90 - March 8, 2012 at 1:26 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 8, 2012 at 1:31 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Faith No More - March 8, 2012 at 3:06 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2012 at 10:14 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Voltair - March 9, 2012 at 2:08 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by toro - March 9, 2012 at 11:34 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Neo-Scholastic - March 10, 2012 at 12:19 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by toro - March 10, 2012 at 10:08 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2012 at 10:20 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2012 at 10:29 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 10:39 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2012 at 10:41 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 10:46 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 10, 2012 at 11:20 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 10:46 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2012 at 10:48 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 10:51 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 11:30 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 10, 2012 at 11:39 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 11:43 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 10, 2012 at 11:51 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 12:22 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 10, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Welsh cake - March 10, 2012 at 11:59 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 11:59 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 10, 2012 at 12:04 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 10, 2012 at 12:35 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 12:33 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 12:40 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 12:44 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Cinjin - March 10, 2012 at 12:40 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by frankiej - March 10, 2012 at 12:42 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 10, 2012 at 12:45 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 12:50 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by frankiej - March 10, 2012 at 12:48 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 12:51 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by frankiej - March 10, 2012 at 12:55 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 12:57 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 12:59 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Cinjin - March 10, 2012 at 12:59 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 1:16 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by frankiej - March 10, 2012 at 1:21 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 10, 2012 at 1:27 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 1:24 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2012 at 1:25 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 1:26 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 1:27 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by frankiej - March 10, 2012 at 1:27 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2012 at 1:28 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by black36 - March 10, 2012 at 1:28 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 1:40 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2012 at 1:35 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by frankiej - March 10, 2012 at 1:42 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Phil - March 10, 2012 at 1:45 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 1:44 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by frankiej - March 10, 2012 at 2:12 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 1:49 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by downbeatplumb - March 10, 2012 at 3:03 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 10, 2012 at 2:16 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Shell B - March 10, 2012 at 2:18 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Cinjin - March 10, 2012 at 3:31 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Shell B - March 10, 2012 at 3:34 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 8:26 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Shell B - March 10, 2012 at 8:30 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 8:32 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Shell B - March 10, 2012 at 8:33 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 10, 2012 at 8:35 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Shell B - March 11, 2012 at 1:18 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 11, 2012 at 10:44 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 11, 2012 at 11:29 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Shell B - March 11, 2012 at 1:22 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - March 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 11, 2012 at 1:23 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Shell B - March 11, 2012 at 1:30 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Werewolff - March 11, 2012 at 1:31 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by SaintGeorge - March 14, 2012 at 9:03 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Godschild - March 15, 2012 at 3:21 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by NoMoreFaith - March 15, 2012 at 7:04 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by ThomM - August 23, 2012 at 8:04 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Jackalope - August 23, 2012 at 8:16 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by festive1 - November 29, 2012 at 5:46 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by padraic - August 23, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Kayenneh - August 24, 2012 at 4:33 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Minimalist - November 29, 2012 at 5:51 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Cato - November 29, 2012 at 5:54 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Minimalist - November 29, 2012 at 5:59 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by John V - December 3, 2012 at 3:48 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Kousbroek - December 3, 2012 at 3:54 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by IATIA - December 4, 2012 at 9:12 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by The Grand Nudger - December 5, 2012 at 11:09 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Voltair - December 6, 2012 at 2:04 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Ryft - December 10, 2012 at 3:47 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Rayaan - December 10, 2012 at 4:15 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Ryft - December 10, 2012 at 4:40 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Welsh cake - December 10, 2012 at 4:29 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Rayaan - December 10, 2012 at 4:42 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by KichigaiNeko - December 10, 2012 at 4:51 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 11, 2012 at 1:44 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by ronedee - December 11, 2012 at 11:07 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Darkstar - December 11, 2012 at 12:04 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by ronedee - December 11, 2012 at 3:13 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 11, 2012 at 3:17 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Ryft - December 11, 2012 at 9:15 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 12, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Undeceived - December 12, 2012 at 11:37 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Dee Dee Ramone - December 12, 2012 at 11:48 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 13, 2012 at 6:12 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Ryft - December 13, 2012 at 11:43 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Darkstar - December 11, 2012 at 9:18 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Ryft - December 12, 2012 at 9:51 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 12, 2012 at 9:57 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 13, 2012 at 1:51 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Dee Dee Ramone - December 13, 2012 at 2:41 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 13, 2012 at 12:16 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by ronedee - December 13, 2012 at 3:45 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 14, 2012 at 12:10 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by ronedee - December 16, 2012 at 9:53 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 17, 2012 at 6:16 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Dee Dee Ramone - December 17, 2012 at 6:25 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 17, 2012 at 6:28 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Dee Dee Ramone - December 17, 2012 at 6:29 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by ronedee - December 17, 2012 at 12:19 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by downbeatplumb - December 17, 2012 at 2:43 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 17, 2012 at 4:51 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Faith No More - December 13, 2012 at 4:01 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by TarShoduze - December 17, 2012 at 6:51 am
RE: The idea of God always existing - by Faith No More - December 17, 2012 at 4:15 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by ronedee - December 18, 2012 at 4:09 pm
RE: The idea of God always existing - by pocaracas - December 18, 2012 at 4:33 pm

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