RE: The idea of God always existing
March 8, 2012 at 11:54 am
(This post was last modified: March 8, 2012 at 12:13 pm by Mystic.)
So the three arguments from morality
1) Morality points to Ultimate High Authority by virtue of commanding to ultimate high authority
2) Morality nature manifests as being eternal
3) There needs to be an absolute correct morality which we either are correct with reference to or are wrong with reference to.
As for the 1, I think no matter how small or big of the moral issue is, at the end, the morality telling us 'we should do the right thing' has infinite ultimate authority. There is no limit on it's authority. When it condemns something as wrong, the commanding "should not do it" is so ultimate, it's at the degree of highest possible authority. But can this be simply our evolutionary emotional feeling..surely if that was true, it would not be to the ultimate authority which to me seems obvious morality is of. This ultimate authority can only be God. It can't be some non-living metaphysical thing. That simply doesn't make logical sense. Therefore when we think of morality, it seems to be pointing to an ultimate authority. Now people might want to refute this with Euthyphro dilemma, but I argue that the either that ultimate morality is God or is part of God, and that is an authority in itself.
As for the 2, I think we can argue this case, by saying what if morality didn't exist at all, not even with God, and then God can simply make it up. To me, this shown to be impossible, because it would be arbitrary. The nature of morality is such that it can't just be made up by God, but rather must be eternal. But what can be eternal morality but God? Aside from this thought process, I contend that the nature of morality itself points to being of eternal basis and that it's manifest simply as a property, much like free-will is necessary for morality to be valid.
As for 3, it seems that for morality to be true there must be a correct view to regards to everything. But when we are wrong or have a twisted view, what are we twisting from if morality is simple what we think to be true. I have my own dilemma:
Is what we think to be moral, moral because we think it to be moral, or we do think something is moral because it is moral?
There is problems with either of these. Because our thoughts of what is moral of often wrong. But there seems to be a need of a reality that we are twisted from. It's not only that, but with regards to what makes one greater due to morality and the many possible stages, there seems to be a need of a correct view to all these things. We also need a connection to that view if we are to be right on something and condemned when we are of a twisted view.
If there isn't correctness to everything, it seems that it then calls to doubt morality as a whole, while morality is not really doubtable.
If it's all left to how we think and we have no connection to a correct absolute view, morality as we understand breaks down and become all relative.
Since morality is not all relative, it seems there needs to be an objective reality that has correct view and we some how connected to it, and can either be praised for holding the view that is in line with it or have wrong views that are twisted from it. What can this reality be but God. At the end, it has to include correct view of all stages of moral greatness, and be basis to it, including ultimate morality. What can that be but ultimate morality itself?
This is basically the three things of morality that manifest to me there is a God.
I know some people will see morality just as practical useful thing, but to me it's nature speaks of a metaphysical reality.
1) Morality points to Ultimate High Authority by virtue of commanding to ultimate high authority
2) Morality nature manifests as being eternal
3) There needs to be an absolute correct morality which we either are correct with reference to or are wrong with reference to.
As for the 1, I think no matter how small or big of the moral issue is, at the end, the morality telling us 'we should do the right thing' has infinite ultimate authority. There is no limit on it's authority. When it condemns something as wrong, the commanding "should not do it" is so ultimate, it's at the degree of highest possible authority. But can this be simply our evolutionary emotional feeling..surely if that was true, it would not be to the ultimate authority which to me seems obvious morality is of. This ultimate authority can only be God. It can't be some non-living metaphysical thing. That simply doesn't make logical sense. Therefore when we think of morality, it seems to be pointing to an ultimate authority. Now people might want to refute this with Euthyphro dilemma, but I argue that the either that ultimate morality is God or is part of God, and that is an authority in itself.
As for the 2, I think we can argue this case, by saying what if morality didn't exist at all, not even with God, and then God can simply make it up. To me, this shown to be impossible, because it would be arbitrary. The nature of morality is such that it can't just be made up by God, but rather must be eternal. But what can be eternal morality but God? Aside from this thought process, I contend that the nature of morality itself points to being of eternal basis and that it's manifest simply as a property, much like free-will is necessary for morality to be valid.
As for 3, it seems that for morality to be true there must be a correct view to regards to everything. But when we are wrong or have a twisted view, what are we twisting from if morality is simple what we think to be true. I have my own dilemma:
Is what we think to be moral, moral because we think it to be moral, or we do think something is moral because it is moral?
There is problems with either of these. Because our thoughts of what is moral of often wrong. But there seems to be a need of a reality that we are twisted from. It's not only that, but with regards to what makes one greater due to morality and the many possible stages, there seems to be a need of a correct view to all these things. We also need a connection to that view if we are to be right on something and condemned when we are of a twisted view.
If there isn't correctness to everything, it seems that it then calls to doubt morality as a whole, while morality is not really doubtable.
If it's all left to how we think and we have no connection to a correct absolute view, morality as we understand breaks down and become all relative.
Since morality is not all relative, it seems there needs to be an objective reality that has correct view and we some how connected to it, and can either be praised for holding the view that is in line with it or have wrong views that are twisted from it. What can this reality be but God. At the end, it has to include correct view of all stages of moral greatness, and be basis to it, including ultimate morality. What can that be but ultimate morality itself?
This is basically the three things of morality that manifest to me there is a God.
I know some people will see morality just as practical useful thing, but to me it's nature speaks of a metaphysical reality.