(March 7, 2012 at 6:51 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: I guess I'm guilty of doing philosophy...
An interviewer once asked Carl Sagan where the universe came from if not from God. Sagan replied, “If you say the universe came from God, the next question is ‘where did God come from?’ If you then say ‘God always existed’ then why not save a step and say the universe always existed.” Occam’s razor at its finest!
Modern science teaches us that the universe began in a “big bang.” Most theists would point to this and say, “See! Something had to be before the big bang.” They fail to understand that there wasn’t any time or space before the big bang.
The first source of confusion follows from thinking effective cause (cause and effect) is the only kind of cause. Aristotle also identified Material Cause, Formal Cause and Final Cause. The Scholastics adapted these ideas to theology. Prior means that, in order to exist at all, the physical world depends upon these causes. They are pre-conditions for physical reality, the inviolate Rule from which the particular rules governing the physical universe derive.
The second source of confusion follows from thinking of the physical universe as existing apart from the creator. Out of nothing, nothing comes. That rules out creation ex nihilo. If God created a separate creation then you would have two entities: God and his creation. God plus the creation would make an entity greater than either God or the creation alone. Such a god would be less that the totality and therefore not the actual Supreme Being. From this it follows that no god could create a universe from nothing nor could a god make something outside of itself. Therefore all of creation including the known universe occurs within the totality. This totality is God.
This position is known a Panentheism, which is slightly different than Pantheism.
How do you explain "there wasn’t any time or space before the big bang." ?
