Can the forum's christians see the demons in other people?

[Darkstar]

God, being omniscient, knows whether John B Adam and Eve would have accepted salvation in the absence of the demon devil, and can dismiss the demon based on that knowledge, or just save ruin them man in the end despite the lack of an overt confession of lack of faith.

Sure. What's your point?

That god doesn't give people the benefit of the doubt.

Funny how these things work, huh?

Yes - you argue above that Satan wasn't necessary for God's plan re: mankind, which indicates there are other purposes for Satan, going against your previous position. Quite funny.

Only if you assume that god wasn't okay with letting Satan lead mankind away from him. Nothing is 'necessary' to an omnipotent being. Why did he create Eve from Adam's rib? For metaphorical reasons? Should I start quoting Revelation about just what god 'lets' Satan do?

Then again, we only need salvation because god let Satan decieve the naive and impressionable minds of Adam and Eve.

Er, how do you know that they wouldn't have eventually disobeyed God even without Satan's influence?

Eventually as in infinite time?Some theists here have supposed that Adam and Eve were in the garden for millenia before the fall. It seems like they had no desire at all to eat the fruit until Satan both removed the threat of death, and added the benefit of knowledge. (Although god inflicted mortality upon them afterwards, but Satan is not imniscent, and he had tricky wordy that could be interpreted in other ways).

By the way, wouldn't it be against god's nature to let someone go to heaven without their accepting Jesus (thus making it impossible)?

The OT faithful didn't know Jesus, but I'd say they're saved, so - no.

http://letsaskgod.com/index.php?option=c...2&Itemid=2

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The saints are described as being in a blissful or peaceful state, although they are essentially captive until the resurrection. That point is without dissent in the post-apostolic period.

1. Paul clearly taught that to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord ( II Cor. 5:8) This can only refer to our intermediate state after death but before the resurrection, since it is specifically stated as being "absent from the body."

2. Both Biblical tradition and apostolic tradition records Jesus' descent into Hades before his own resurrection. Jesus told the thief on the cross beside him that before the sun set that day, they would be in "Paradise" ie. Abraham's Bosom. Apocryphal writings like the Gospel of Nicodemus records how Jesus appeared in Hades and triumphed over Satan, Death, and Hades, whence we get the phrase from the apostle's creed "He descended into Hell". (See also Col. 2:5). Having procured salvation for the Old Testament saints, they were free to "boldly enter the throne of grace". Christ subsequently could be said to have extricated those held in captivity in that compartment of Hades. Paul writes in the Book of Ephesians 4:8-9:

This is why it says "when he ascended on high, he led captives in his train, and gave gifts to men. What does "he ascended mean except that he also descended to the lower earthly regions?

This would indicate that those who received him in Hades did indeed ascend into God's presence. This scenario of freeing the captives in "Abraham's Bosom" would also lend special meaning to Jesus' words in John 8:56, where he states that "Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day."

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It looks like a sort of pseudo-heaven used to hold those who would be saved until they had the opportunity to accept Jesus. It does not mean that someone can be saved without accepting Jesus.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles...jesus-came
[quote]So were there multiple ways of salvation prior to the coming of Jesus in space and time to die as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind? The answer must be a resounding “No.” Paul explained in Romans 4 that salvation has always been and will always be by God’s grace and received through faith alone.[/hide]
Both are apologetics websites, by the way.