Another gun thread...

[The Grand Nudger]

Cryptic, conspiratorial and off-topic. I have nothing to hide regarding tougher gun laws. End of story.

Hardly cryptic, conspiratorial, or off-topic. Granting a governing body the authority to insist that you demonstrate that you have nothing to hide is definitely something worthy of fear. Laws aren't written in a vacuum. If you grant precedent it can and will be used elsewhere (perhaps some place that you aren't quite as accepting of - but what argument could you offer then?). How do you get tougher than background checks, waiting periods, permitting, registration, revocation of rights, and 10-20-Life? These are all laws currently on the books, in effect, and enforced to various degrees. Some states (like Florida) have every one of these laws in effect.

Agreed, our government sucks, but it does on occasion safeguard MANY aspects of American life and where I alone am concerned, I would support the stricter regulations in favor of saving children's lives.

True, they do a shitty job sometimes but at least they're trying. I would suggest that enforcing current gun laws adequately would have the effect you desire. I also have to add that "doing it for the children" is a great sell for stripping anyone of any right - I mean hey, who could argue against that eh?

Actually, a great deal, but you're very smart Rhythm and I think you're well aware that you're greatly simplifying my comparison of a right vs. a privilege to a comparison of a Drivers license and a gun permit. There's far more to it than that and you know it.

Not by any metrics I've ever seen. It's not as though traffic related deaths have dropped since licensing came into effect. There -is- far more to this issue and I've seen it consistently ignored in every thread.

Who cares? It's irrelevant to my point. We have a problem with crazies getting their hands on guns. IMO, we should make some kind of effort to stop that.

Absolutely, like enforcing the law that nearly every state (pretty sure it's every state...but I'll leave some room for uncertainty) has on the books that says "it's illegal to sell crazy a gun" - and "it's illegal for crazy to own a gun".

I actually do understand that sentiment, but somebody has to give a little, and I for one am willing to give a little.
Who really gives a shit if it takes longer to get a gun and you're forced to be responsible with it? That'll just have to be the price you pay to acquire one. We can adjust, and those who can't ... too fucking bad, my child's life is worth more than some guy's exaggerated case of butthurt.

A sentiment I understand as well, putting the interests of your child before the interests of a populations rights and bulwarks against the tyranny of government. It will take you and I longer to get a gun (provided it's on the approved list of firearms- of course) because we are law abiding, responsible gun owners - it wont take crazy or criminal any longer than it currently does. It won't be crazy or criminal that tougher gun laws (tougher than whats on the books already - and I keep imploring people to actually go check the books btw) affect, it will be John Q. It would be legislation that infringes upon the rights of a citizen who has done nothing to justify such infringement based upon the actions of those who have. Like I've said in other threads, if we're gonna do it, we're gonna do it....but lets be nice and blunt with ourselves about it for once. We just can't handle this right, this freedom, it has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with our own failure to live up to the standards demanded by this freer society. We're more interested in safety, however that's sold (even if the pitch is little more than a bill of goods). For the children, you know?