The argument from morality is scary.

[Mark 13:13]

before we can proceed beyond the natural numbers in mathematics we have to presuppose nothing exists...

What are you talking about?

The term "natural number" refers either to a member of the set of positive integers 1, 2, 3, ... (Sloane's A000027) or to the set of nonnegative integers 0, 1, 2, 3, ... (Sloane's A001477; e.g., Bourbaki 1968, Halmos 1974). Regrettably, there seems to be no general agreement about whether to include 0 in the set of natural numbers. In fact, Ribenboim (1996) states "Let P be a set of natural numbers; whenever convenient, it may be assumed that 0 belongs to P ."

so I,m working on the basis of not assuming 0 belongs to the set.

and as I said someone on the forum challenged something I said on the basis that "nothing" cannot exist in the universe so the idea that we even need to even consider how something can come out of nothing was irrelevant.