How do you debated a Muslim?

[Something completely different]

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33166.pdf

http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/07...ration.pdf

!
This is not a study and report of muslims attitude towards pluralism!
This is a study into how European countries are integrating muslims into their sociaties, and if these efforts are working.

This report examines policies aimed at promoting integration, combating terrorism, and
countering violent extremism in five European countries with significant Muslim populations:
France, Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, and the United Kingdom. The report also evaluates the
role of the 27-member European Union (EU) in shaping European laws and policies related to
integration and counter-radicalization.

The report doesnt give any exact number to radicalisation amongst muslims in Europe, it simply lists and explains the recent efforts of european countries on how they attempt to integrate these population and helpp them to abide easier with european secular pluralist values.
This simply confirms the point that the integration of muslims into european sociaty has failed and that new efforts have to be undergone.
It does not rebuke the fact that through surveis it is known that alot of muslims disregard european values. As I have shown through links that I have posted and which you have ignored.
In the end, this study does nothing to disprove the claim that a big number of muslims within europe reject the very principles and values held up by the country they live in.

My favourite from Edinburgh University:

http://www.britishcouncil.org/scotland-s...report.pdf

This report explains the demographics and history behing muslim immigration into Europe in the past 50 years aswell as the change of public opinion towards muslims due to historic events is explained.
It also lists efforts by european countries to counter radicalisation and non integration.

Yet it doesnt deliver any numbers and statistics about the willingness of muslims to integrate let alone studies about muslim views.

So again, it doesnt scratch a bit on the things which I have posted.

http://yonseijournal.files.wordpress.com...ration.pdf

This very onesided study again lists mesures of integration and then lists the numbers of attacks against muslims and analyses the events and social triggers which cause anti islamic sentiment, discrimination and violence in the USA.
Completly failing to list muslim attacks on non muslims or assimilated muslims. Aswell as it fails to produce any numbers and studies on the question if muslims even want to integrate and if how many.

And check the PEW forum as it is the most authoratative due to its most extensive and representative samples:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2005/07/14/isla...n-publics/

First off, You are an asshole!!! Because I have posted several PEW studies and you didnt bother to reply let alone to read even a single one.
Which shows that you are a lazy person who would rather live in selfcomfort produced through ignoring facts which are uncomforting.

This study is about "islamic extremism".
It shows that the world wide support for suicide bombings amongs muslims is declining, yet still high.

It also confirms my point about muslim opinion on democracy and not yours:

It also plays to my points when conducting a survey on what role islam should play in politics:

Yet there is some ambivalence about the role of Islam in government. Majorities or pluralities in each of the predominantly Muslim countries surveyed, except for Jordan, say Islam is playing a greater role in politics than a few years ago. But those who see Islam playing a large role in political life are also somewhat more likely to say that Islamic extremism poses a threat to their countries.

This contradicts european values, since in order for a country to be pluralist it must have a seculare goverment. Secular means: That state and religion are seperated - which means that all religions are treated equaly - which means no religion can claim power and inforce it`s views on others.

The study also says:

Worries about extremism are often greater among those who believe Islam has a significant voice in the political life of their country. This is particularly the case in Turkey and Morocco. The polling finds that those in Turkey who self-identify primarily with their nationality worry more about Islamic extremism than do those who think of themselves first as Muslim.

which in my view simply concides with the fact that the support for terror attacks is falling - meaning that those who would support the politics behind them are affraid of losing their public image.

the study confirms to me also the intolerance for non muslims in the muslim world via this survey:

especialy jews seem to have a hard time amongst the islamic world, and it shows clearly, that even if alot of europeans have a unfavoriable view of muslims, the muslims are worse.

Anti-Jewish sentiment is endemic in the Muslim world. In Lebanon, all Muslims and 99% of Christians say they have a very unfavorable view of Jews. Similarly, 99% of Jordanians have a very unfavorable view of Jews. Large majorities of Moroccans, Indonesians, Pakistanis and six-in-ten Turks also view Jews unfavorably.

In the end, I must say, you posted a study which is not in favor of your view. So I even doubt that you actualy read it, which makes me think that you didnt read a single one of these studies but simply googled "muslims against violence" and "muslim integration" and then posted the links of whatever sounded nice to you.

http://www.britishcouncil.org/scotland-s...report.pdf

in the summery this study says all that needs to be known:

The British Council Scotland commissioned research into the attitudes of Scots towards
Muslims in Scotland and into Muslim Scots’ experiences of integration. The research was
conducted by Ipsos MORI Scotland under the auspices of the British Council’s “Our Shared
Europe” programme, which was established to acknowledge the contribution of Islamic
communities and cultures – both past and present – to the shaping of contemporary
European civilisation and society.

again

research into the attitudes of Scots towards
Muslims in Scotland and into Muslim Scots’ experiences of integration. The research was

isnt exactly a study about muslim attitudes towards scots, scotish sociaty, scotish drinking habits, scotish laws, scotish free speech, scots who draw mohamed, scotish women who like sex, scots who eat pork and how scots who aint muslims should be treated.

But you won't take these as authority cos your authority is your own faith that Muslims can't integrate and never will be able to

Nope, my authority is reason and therefor the conclusions I can get out of facts.
Your authority is a dream picture which you probably never attempted to question yourself.

JUST like Jews were seen as incompatible with German nationalism - that was a lie that sucked people in too

The jews were seen as parasitic and as the cause of all evil - for no reason and with no evidence.

I see muslims as individuals, and do not want individuals from that faith in my country when they reject the moral principles of that country, which most of them even say themselves.

Neither do I regulary march through the streets in a brown uniform hunting down muslims beating them or even murdering them, vandalising their buisnesses and forbidding others to buy there.
Nore am I building gaschambers to collectively murder them.

I should mention, that for me, as a german, who knows his history very well, there is nothing as repulsice and disgusting as a person or a group of people who claim that they were victims of the holocaust or national socialism, or that they were treated like the victims of national socialism.

So go fuck yourself.

Actualy most of the muslims were on Hitlers side during our countries darkest times:





If there is a modern right wing fascist group in Europe which can from it`s ferocity be compared to old and modern european fascist groups - yet outdo those in numbers and support, then it`s the salafists and every muslim who proclaims his religions superiority and it`s need to rule supreme.

As in past Global Attitudes surveys, publics in predominantly Muslim countries believe that democracy can work in their countries. Large and growing majorities in Morocco (83%), Lebanon (83%), Jordan (80%) and Indonesia (77%) — as well as pluralities in Turkey (48%) and Pakistan (43%) — say democracy can work well and is not just for the West.


Uh oh - looks like there are millions -MILLIONS- of Muslims who support democracy

Uh oh - time to admit you are wrong in your assumption that Muslims are against democracy.

Who are you gonna believe? Millions of Muslims or TGAC??

Or suggest they were lying to keep your faith stance plausible??

You copied this from a reply of yours in another thread, and I will only answere in that thread.


I would like to add, that while I went to the trouble of klicking and reading through your links you were to lazy, incompetent or in a state of to deep self denial to read mine.