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If the universe was fine tuned for our life...
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life...
(December 5, 2014 at 12:45 pm)Heywood Wrote: We didn't create the tensile strength of steel either....does that mean intelligence wasn't required for the existence of the Burj Khalifa?
Procedural generation can be accomplished without intelligence because it does not require intelligence. It doesn't matter that we -can- use it, or that we possess intelligence and do use it, or that intelligence may be present when it occurs. Those are all separate propositions.
(rasetsu's chameleon example from pages back tried to communicate this - just because something is happening in the vicinity of intelligent things, that doesn't mean that their intelligence has anything to do with what's happening.)

Quote:
I understand that we don't create algorithms, but we certainly employ them in ways nature never would.
Oh IDK, we might use them in precisely the same way that nature does. Neither of us know enough to say that for certain (I'm fairly convinced that we do, personally). Procedural generations can create your "sub-realities" without any requirement of intelligence. That we can use the product of that work is unsurprising - and this seems to be what has you tied into knots.

Your claim, that sub-realities appear to require intelligence, is plainly and demonstrably false. Whatever an intelligence -might do- with a "sub-reality" so created is another discussion.

Quote:I keep asking you to show me an example of a sub reality which would exist even if there was no intelligence. You claim Secondlife is a sub reality which would exist or could reasonably come into existence if there was no intelligence. That claim is absurd.
Nub, I claim nada about a "sub-reality" other than that you're making shit up. These are your examples. Turn that suddenly perceptive gaze inward. Second life uses procedural generation to create a world without any requirement for intelligence - that's what procedural generation is and does..end of.

Your interpretation of that world is what requires your intelligence*. We could be playing two different games using the same engine - and the same calculations in each will yield a different effect on the screen. It doesn't matter if the engine is running random numbers, or if the engine itself is a random number. Anything that can be accurately labeled a procedural generation - does not require intelligence, only a means by which procedure can be set and carried out. That we can provide those means should come as no surprise to you, knowing that they can be arrived at by chance, essentially as features of a universe with order; the application of a little human (intelligent) work ought to make that a bit more reliable - ought to be able to greatly emphasize the effect, eh? We call that implementation.

Computational systems exist regardless of whether we intentionally create or simply find them. The work they do is an effect of their structure and arrangement -not our intelligence (and all our intelligence can do in this regard is to arrange things in the proper order...we can't use intelligence to "make" the gate any other way than the proper one). If we weren't around - if no one was around, so long as the operating conditions of the implementation are met the system does work.

(*whatever that is).
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Messages In This Thread
If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Lucanus - November 30, 2014 at 1:06 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Nope - November 30, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - November 30, 2014 at 1:40 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - November 30, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 2, 2014 at 7:34 am
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 2, 2014 at 11:04 am
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by C4RM5 - November 30, 2014 at 1:50 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - November 30, 2014 at 2:22 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Chas - December 1, 2014 at 10:49 am
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 2:02 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 3:02 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - November 30, 2014 at 3:42 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 3:46 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 3:50 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 4:09 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 4:18 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 4:25 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 5:00 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 5:41 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 5:56 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 2, 2014 at 1:08 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 3, 2014 at 7:24 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - December 5, 2014 at 12:32 am
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by The Grand Nudger - December 5, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 5, 2014 at 2:27 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - December 5, 2014 at 10:02 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - December 5, 2014 at 10:21 pm

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