RE: If faith works how every religion says it works......
August 10, 2010 at 9:40 am
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2010 at 9:48 am by tavarish.)
(August 9, 2010 at 10:23 pm)RAD Wrote: I said "the claims and promises." Obviously you would pick the one with the greatest promises. Um, like scientists do? Muhammed makes 4-5 fewer major promises than Jesus, promises only an irrational person would turn down. The typical atheist doesn't seem to mind testing 20 philosophies that never took one felon off the streets and made him wash cars, so your argument is hypocritical anyway.
So you're equating actions of people as the result of a doctrine to judge the truth of that doctrine. By that reasoning, Santa Claus is real because children tend to behave as a result of getting presents on Christmas. Your methodology is ridiculously faulty, as you don't choose a hypothesis with the most claims, you choose the claims you can falsify.
You have to be specific as to what claims and promises you believe are falsifiable, testable, and demonstrable evidence for your God.
Quote:They have to be falsifiable to have any merit.
(August 9, 2010 at 10:23 pm)RAD Wrote: So go falsify one.
Did you read what I said?
Define the claims first, then produce evidence. This is how science and rational discussion work.
(August 9, 2010 at 10:23 pm)RAD Wrote: In some cases yes. Some no. I am also talking about people not in prison who are led to Jesus, and have tried everything else usually, like stealing cars to feed a habit.
And what of the people led to Allah, Vishnu, or Buddha under those same circumstances?
(August 9, 2010 at 10:23 pm)RAD Wrote: Fine but realize that, rationally speaking, if God exists we are boneheads by definition. Agreed?
If your God exists, he made us boneheads by definition. Agreed?
(August 9, 2010 at 10:23 pm)RAD Wrote: Do you really want to overlook an obvious truth right now and cross your fingers without a thorough investigation, and testing all Jesus promised?
1. If it were obvious, there would be no discussion.
2. You have yet to define any testable claims made by Jesus that leads to his divinity.
3. You can't test supernatural claims demonstrably.
(August 9, 2010 at 10:23 pm)RAD Wrote: It only takes a major change in attitude, and a few minutes to get your first clue.
No, it only takes a presupposition in which you believe the thing you're assessing is true - and that's ridiculous when the very thing you're trying to do is assess its validity.
(August 9, 2010 at 10:23 pm)RAD Wrote: If God doesn't make everything right one day, I will go to hell with you, be assured. But I have no doubt he will.
Evidence for this?
(August 9, 2010 at 10:14 pm)RAD Wrote: "It would be better never to have heard the [Word] than to have heard and disobeyed."
Sorry, but I read Peter as saying you are far worse off than anyone who never had a chance to hear it.
For their case to be "better" it means they will have a chance to put on a certain garment Jesus mentions in one of his parables.
On judgement day, I would argue "I'm not sure I ever really heard it. Can I hear it again from you?" It's your best shot. (Sincerely)
Woops, we don't get to go to the eternal theme park in which you can be a slave every day for the rest of time. Sucks.
It seems that some people really don't take issue with being made faulty through no fault of their own, commanded clean, and forced to have compassion for the one who made you as such - not only that, but to beg of his forgiveness. That is fucked in the head. The God of the Bible has one hell of an ego on him.
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