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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 1:47 am
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2011 at 1:58 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I sure hope not, I'd hate to have to crush that myth again. I've actually been trying to find a way to express this competently, so here's a go at it.
Europe has a bloody history, going all the way back to the stone age. There were quite a few cultures (and with them a variety of beliefs) that came and went over a very long period of time. In any layer of the strata we care to look we find evidence of violence. Those that worshipped matriarchal gods were every bit as warlike and expansionist as those who believed in patriarchal gods. Those that believed in two gods, one god(some even no gods, in the way that we would understand gods), all crafted weapons and built forts. They settled differences with their neighbors, and even their own gods by violent means. Christianity rose in Europe in the middle ages, and contrary to popular belief they weren't pitch black. Europe had a huge explosion in population due to some novel new agricultural techniques, the ultimate effect of which was that these conflicts over differences became gradually larger. The armies of any given god or tribe or faith was no longer a warband, but a proper army. Given the increasing population and all of the tension that this would have produced, and their access to incrementally better weapons and logistics the bloody history of christian Europe seems like a continuation of the bloody history of pagan Europe on a grander scale. The found themselves capable of engaging in larger conflicts than they had been able to manage before, and so that's what they did.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 1:49 am
(December 23, 2011 at 1:47 am)Rhythm Wrote: I sure hope not, I'd hate to have to crush that myth again.
Which myth is that Rhythm?? Sorry I missed the first instalment.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 2:00 am
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2011 at 2:02 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Oh, the whole "peaceful matriarchal Europe before the arrival of the terrible warlike patriarchal gods" bit. For awhile the idea held weight, but in the end it was more a product of our own modern political scene, and the wishes of some as to what they hoped to find in the misty pre-history of Europe.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 2:17 am
I think Gloria Steinem got her start in some frozen northern European wasteland about the time pre-history was coming to a clothes.
Trying to update my sig ...
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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 2:19 am
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2011 at 2:48 am by Minimalist.)
"Better?" No. "Different? " Yes." More "tolerant?" Definitely.
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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 2:29 am
(December 22, 2011 at 10:11 pm)padraic Wrote: Christianity, ........,is no better or worse than most other religions in human history.
What is your implicit error tolerance when you say the degree of badness of Christianity is indistinguishable from those of most other religions?
It seems to me that reasonably tight error tolerance would see Christianity notably worse than any other religion. Fairly slack tolerance might put Christianity in the same general blob of badness as islam, but still far and away worse than any other religion.
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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 6:24 am
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2011 at 6:30 am by Rokcet Scientist.)
(December 23, 2011 at 1:47 am)Rhythm Wrote: Europe has a bloody history, going all the way back to the stone age. There were quite a few cultures (and with them a variety of beliefs) that came and went over a very long period of time. In any layer of the strata we care to look we find evidence of violence. Those that worshipped matriarchal gods were every bit as warlike and expansionist as those who believed in patriarchal gods. Those that believed in two gods, one god(some even no gods, in the way that we would understand gods), all crafted weapons and built forts. They settled differences with their neighbors, and even their own gods by violent means. Christianity rose in Europe in the middle ages, and contrary to popular belief they weren't pitch black. Europe had a huge explosion in population due to some novel new agricultural techniques, the ultimate effect of which was that these conflicts over differences became gradually larger. The armies of any given god or tribe or faith was no longer a warband, but a proper army. Given the increasing population and all of the tension that this would have produced, and their access to incrementally better weapons and logistics the bloody history of christian Europe seems like a continuation of the bloody history of pagan Europe on a grander scale. The found themselves capable of engaging in larger conflicts than they had been able to manage before, and so that's what they did.
Until providence – or 'God', if you prefer – intervened and killed about half of them – one hundred million people! – in only a few years! The Black Death.
Apparently that inspired the church so much that they've subsequently spent centuries trying to emulate its example: the Inquisition...
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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 7:00 am
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2011 at 7:01 am by KichigaiNeko.)
(December 23, 2011 at 2:00 am)Rhythm Wrote: Oh, the whole "peaceful matriarchal Europe before the arrival of the terrible warlike patriarchal gods" bit. For awhile the idea held weight, but in the end it was more a product of our own modern political scene, and the wishes of some as to what they hoped to find in the misty pre-history of Europe.
No dispute from me mate...thought you may have had some info I was not aware of.
Humans just love to fool themselves about "the Good Old Days" don't they??
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 9:14 am
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2011 at 9:16 am by The Magic Pudding.)
I've seen videos.
Quality recreations of pagan festivals, Hi res.
You have a fire, and dance around it and drink out of a horn thing, you have to drink it all or pass it along 'cause its not very stable, I suppose if you had some loose sand you could stick it in that. It's all very natural (could have been some cosmetic surgery) human stuff, seemed much better than any church service I've been too.
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RE: Were other European religions better than Christianity?
December 23, 2011 at 11:48 am
I think there is more to them than getting high at Burning Man. Indeed, the wicker man comes more to mind. Shall we stuff it full of hippies?
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