The source of all evil

[Blam!]

Like...When Samson ripped some guys a new asshole through their stomachs with just a jawbone?
Obviously, those verses were not meant to instill morals, whatsoever.
They are there only to demonstrate the strength/wrath of God.
That's it. The moral guidelines are exhibited elsewhere, and people read the bible accordingly when searching for biblical morals.
Besides, it comes down on the person. I do not believe in the bible, so I do not use it in order to justify my moral standpoints.

But at the end, society is formed of individuals who agree on a common set of morals, which are not really distinct from what are said in most holy books.
Don't steal, don't fuck other people's wives, don't murder, don't cheat, don't do this, don't do that.
I think there is a reason why they are common for them all.

True, but in cases, Christians are hypocrites - they preach of God's love, yet they demonize homosexuality by quote the verses of anti-gay scriptures. I just don't think the quoting the verses of anti-gay scriptures will make the hatred against homosexuality any civilized. Nor will any kind of excuses to make the incivility civilized. Religion isn't help anything, really.

It's in the book. They are responsible for their own mistakes, to the people whom they did wrong(even if themselves), but if you accept a religion, you are also responsible to God himself. So it's quite natural if they ask God for forgiveness first, as he is above every other man.

I don't see how they can improvise themselves without the burden of responsibility [or guilt] if they had it removed through by forgiveness of god?

I'm not sure if you see my point - What if the one removes the burden of responsibility [or guilt] without learn any lesson?

Who does not? I do too.

I'd love to be immortal, too. Immortality is fascinating, but... I know one good quote -

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"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." -Albert Einstein

---

And how is that to be morally wrong?

Ah. I don't think forgiveness are morally wrong - sure, it's great feeling to have the heavy weight removed from your shoulders. But... Uh.. I live with my own repentance - To me, Repentance is sole reason I improvise my morals, ethics, and who I am -- to be good person.

I still don't see any apparent reason why the one should need the bible [or religious Scriptures] to be good. After all, the bible is written by morally primitive sheepherders lived in between of 6000-2000 years ago. But really, it's sad to think many theists would believe the conscience come from god, not humanity.

[kılıç_mehmet]

True, but in cases, Christians are hypocrites - they preach of God's love, yet they demonize homosexuality by quote the verses of anti-gay scriptures. I just don't think the quoting the verses of anti-gay scriptures will make the hatred against homosexuality any civilized. Nor will any kind of excuses to make the incivility civilized. Religion isn't help anything, really.

Well, they have to. Homosexuality, after all, is a mortal sin according to their holy books.
What I don't understand is why they do not do the same for the breaking of the sabbath.
Like, they do not follow the law of Moses, yet they have decided on certain things that are considered to be sinful.
Christianity is, as a matter of fact, a religion that is not really stable.
One cannot decide on what to believe, unless one chooses to follow a tradition.

And well, God's love is, again via scripture, to those who accept it.
And there are certain restrictions and limitations. God obviously had no love for overtly sinful and foul nations like Sodom and Gomorrah, something that must be taken into accord, and the law of Moses states that sodomites are to be put to death when discovered.
There actually is no "contradiction" or "hypocricy". I think there is only confusion within christianity.

I don't see how they can improvise themselves without the burden of responsibility [or guilt] if they had it removed through by forgiveness of god?

I'm not sure if you see my point - What if the one removes the burden of responsibility [or guilt] without learn any lesson?

I'd post a verse that'd go in accordance with this conversation, but I'm still searching for it, so I'll return to that later.
I'll say only this. In Christianity, as in Islam, one may either sin against the fellow man, or one may sin against God.
If you sin against the fellow man, you do not ask God for forgiveness, you ask the man you had wronged. If you had sinned against God(like breaking his commandments, his laws or whatever that was forbidden), you seek redemption only and only from God.
You say like, if someone had broken someone's nose the other day, he goes and asks God's forgiveness for it. It does not make sense.
The bible had a verse that supports this, but I can't find it.
The guilt factor, again, is the same. If you seek forgiveness for wrongdoing from a fellow men, and he forgives you, you do not feel guilt.
If you seek forgiveness from God, and the scripture is in your favour, you feel no more guilt towards God.

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.

Well, for some people, it takes a few spankings.

Ah. I don't think forgiveness are morally wrong - sure, it's great feeling to have the heavy weight removed from your shoulders. But... Uh.. I live with my own repentance - To me, Repentance is sole reason I improvise my morals, ethics, and who I am -- to be good person.

Okay. But I'm sure that most people are trying to be good people.
I'm not excluding christians.

I still don't see any apparent reason why the one should need the bible [or religious Scriptures] to be good. After all, the bible is written by morally primitive sheepherders lived in between of 6000-2000 years ago. But really, it's sad to think many theists would believe the conscience come from god, not humanity.

Well, how does it come that you are morally "superior" to the primitive sheepherders that lived 3000 year ago?

[Rokcet Scientist]

He certainly is my authority on morality.

, he said, carefully picking and choosing his own flavor of morals from the bountiful palet on offer, good and bad, yin and yang, in the scripture.

I do follow the guidelines of his code as best as I can.

Of course: nobody's perfect. So God basically gave you a mission impossible to complete. What a nice guy!
'The price is right' has much better odds.

Besides, I don't hate anyone who did not wrong me.

By inference you do hate those who did wrong you. Bad, bad Xtian! Again you veer from the straight and narrow. Did not the Lord teach you to turn the other cheek and forgive everybody and his mother-in-law? Whatever their transgressions?

I never had any quarrel with gays.

Weasel. Because you immediately make it conditional to your mores:

And in my country, they try their best to stay off the public, and I appreciate that.

And then he turned around and happily continued slaughtering, raping, and maiming millions!

His goal was clear. To unite the world under the blue sky, and the his most glorious banner.
His way was clear.

Can you hear yourself? With that ignorant, medieval, romantic dribble?

Those who submitted to him, were spared his wrath.

A.k.a. a protection racket: pay up or else! Nice guy!

Those who did not, were subject to his wrath.

Like every schizo punk on meth he loved to destroy stuff, quarter people live, and just generally to throw his weight, and his sperm, around. Odds are your DNA can be traced back to him, personally. I.o.w. he probably raped your grandmother. Let that sink in for a minute.
What a guy!

Do not belitte him by stating that his only archievement were the glorious towers of skulls his soldiers took from his enemies.

'Glorious'?
I somehow doubt the first owners of those skulls felt very 'glorious'.

He went from the head of a simple tribe, to the most powerful person on the entire earth.

HA! Bill Gates wasn't even the head of his own ass when he copied someone else's software, and went on to become "the most powerful person on the entire earth"!

And he taught us that he was humble enough to go silently,

He came as a slithering, murderous snake, and he went like one.

without even leaving a grave behind for people to weep.

No! How inconsiderate of him!

[...] those verses were not meant to instill morals, whatsoever.

No?
The clergy must have collectively missed that memo then, for 17 centuries.

They are there only to demonstrate the strength/wrath of God.

There's that infantile showing off attitude again. God must love bling-bling, ho's, low-riders, and gold-plated Colts!
But he sure as hell wouldn't get the gig of Santa in my Mall!

I do not believe in the bible

iAiAiAi! Bad, bad Xtian!

so I do not use it in order to justify my moral standpoints.

Wow man! Be careful! If He finds out you wrote that He will smite you. Ask Min how bad that is! And the Lord will find out! Actually He already does, because He's omniscient, isn't He!
Pffff, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when He comes looking for ya, man!

[kılıç_mehmet]

A.k.a. a protection racket: pay up or else! Nice guy!

I wouldn't call it that, but they submitted to his fair rule.

Can you hear yourself? With that ignorant, medieval, romantic dribble?

I've seen people in this forum who certainly go over the hill with romanticism.
I have never said anything that I did not do.

Like every schizo punk on meth he loved to destroy stuff, quarter people live, and just generally to throw his weight, and his sperm, around. Odds are your DNA can be traced back to him, personally. I.o.w. he raped your grandmother.
What a guy!

I would be proud to have him as my ancestor, but instead, my forefathers had the honour of serving in the armies of his descendants.

'Glorious'?
I somehow doubt the first owners of those skulls felt very 'glorious'.

Such is the price of defeat.
Boohoo. Cry me a river.

HA! Bill Gates wasn't even the head of his own ass when he copied someone else's software, and went on to become "the most powerful person on the entire earth"!

You cannot compare such a person to Chingiss Khan.

He came as a slithering, murderous snake, and he went like one.

Talk trash as much as you want.

No! How inconsiderate of him!

He did not want his grave to be an idol.

iAiAiAi! Bad, bad Xtian!

Why do you keep on insisting that I might even be remotely related with any christians whatsoever?
My family is moslem.

Wow man! Be careful! If He finds out you wrote that He will smite you. Ask Min how bad that is! And the Lord will find out! Actually He already does, because He's omniscient, isn't He!
Pffff, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when He comes looking for ya, man!

If he chooses to. If I'm wrong and the christian god exists, can I do anything else besides to submit to his wrath?
Can you?
[/code]

[Rokcet Scientist]

Why do you keep on insisting that I might even be remotely related with any christians whatsoever?
My family is moslem.

What's the difference?

[kılıç_mehmet]

Why do you keep on insisting that I might even be remotely related with any christians whatsoever?
My family is moslem.

What's the difference?

It would make no difference to me.
I do not distinct between creeds. But I thought that there was a misunderstanding.

[Rokcet Scientist]

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[Blam!]

Well, they have to. Homosexuality, after all, is a mortal sin according to their holy books.
What I don't understand is why they do not do the same for the breaking of the sabbath.
Like, they do not follow the law of Moses, yet they have decided on certain things that are considered to be sinful.
Christianity is, as a matter of fact, a religion that is not really stable.
One cannot decide on what to believe, unless one chooses to follow a tradition.

And well, God's love is, again via scripture, to those who accept it.
And there are certain restrictions and limitations. God obviously had no love for overtly sinful and foul nations like Sodom and Gomorrah, something that must be taken into accord, and the law of Moses states that sodomites are to be put to death when discovered.
There actually is no "contradiction" or "hypocricy". I think there is only confusion within christianity.

Since when peoples' sexual orientation is Christians' business? They SHOULD fuck off.

Religion does not help at all, but instead making things more worse - considering Dark age, burning witch on strikes, child abuse, misogyny, homophobic. Christians [I don't know if they are ignorant to the scriptures of slavery] contradict themselves that slavery is immoral, but the practice of slavery is condoned in the bible.

You say like, if someone had broken someone's nose the other day, he goes and asks God's forgiveness for it. It does not make sense.
The bible had a verse that supports this, but I can't find it.
The guilt factor, again, is the same. If you seek forgiveness for wrongdoing from a fellow men, and he forgives you, you do not feel guilt.
If you seek forgiveness from God, and the scripture is in your favour, you feel no more guilt towards God.

That is not what I am trying to say. There's an saying something like Theists' way like "Forgive, forget and letting it go" - To remove the burden of responsibility [or guilty] without learning an lesson. It's almost like under arrest the multiple-DUI offender always say he'll stop drinking.

Okay. But I'm sure that most people are trying to be good people.
I'm not excluding christians.

You have point - but again, why Christains limit themselves and their moral accord to bible, which is not good source of morality?

Well, how does it come that you are morally "superior" to the primitive sheepherders that lived 3000 year ago?

Not I - if the humanity does not agree with slavery, rape, misogyny condone by god accord to the scriptures, then they are morally "superior" - or perhaps we are more better than god. The beliefs in god may be delusional, but I'm somewhat glad Christians are sane enough not to follow immoral verses [disciplining a child, for example] like Exodus 21:15, 17, Leviticus 20:9, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 22:15.

[kılıç_mehmet]

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Get a fresh box of Kleenex first though.

Click to download
(Watch it: 405MB download!)

I can't download things as it eats off my dowload limits.
And without screencaps too?
Pfft.

---

Since when peoples' sexual orientation is Christians' business? They SHOULD fuck off.

God states that homosexuality is a mortal sin. Christians are actually obliged to share the faith, you know.

Religion does not help at all, but instead making things more worse - considering Dark age, burning witch on strikes, child abuse, misogyny, homophobic. Christians [I don't know if they are ignorant to the scriptures of slavery] contradict themselves that slavery is immoral, but the practice of slavery is condoned in the bible.

I don't see the corrolation between those things you've mentioned, and well, Christianity.
Besides, the issue of slavery is explained as a part of a LAW, the law of Moses, which the Christians do not follow. Still, you do not try to understand for just a minute. Like it's okay, you don't believe in God and all..But your statements and arguments just do not make any sense whatsoever.
Like, how is it relevant to the christians of today, or even the early christians, who were not following the mosaic law, and abandoned it's practices, that Judaism condones slavery at all? The Jews themselves do not own slaves, even though their law allows them to possess slaves?

That is not what I am trying to say. There's an saying something like Theists' way like "Forgive, forget and letting it go" - To remove the burden of responsibility [or guilty] without learning an lesson. It's almost like under arrest the multiple-DUI offender always say he'll stop drinking.

I don't know what this "burden of responsibility" is supposed to mean. I don't think that the responsibility of a person actually depends on how religious he is.
I don't know why you're attempting to discredit theists, christians or whosoever as such.

You have point - but again, why Christains limit themselves and their moral accord to bible, which is not good source of morality?

Why? How should I know? And how do you know that christians "limit" themselves according to the moral guidelines of the bible, which are, btw quite open to interpretation. What I don't understand is, how you actually came to be such an expert on the over 1 billion christians on the earth, and claim that they live their lives according to the exact biblical guidelines?

Not I - if the humanity does not agree with slavery, rape, misogyny condone by god accord to the scriptures, then they are morally "superior" - or perhaps we are more better than god. The beliefs in god may be delusional, but I'm somewhat glad Christians are sane enough not to follow immoral verses [disciplining a child, for example] like Exodus 21:15, 17, Leviticus 20:9, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 22:15.

Remember what I said to you about the mosaic law?
These verses are all for jews.
Not for christians. Obviously, there is a similar case that was mentioned in the new testament. I'll find it for ye.
And hey. I wonder how it'd turn out if the christians would have chosen to do the quite opposite. To hate their fathers and mothers, unlike the mosaic law which tells them otherwise.
Jesus obviously contradicts this law on more than one occasion.

[Rokcet Scientist]

I can't download things as it eats off my dowload limits.

Use a real computer. On a standard broadband internet connection.
Not a baby computer like a phone or tablet. On an expensive mobile connection.