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Current time: April 24, 2024, 2:43 pm

Poll: Is it possible for sexual orientation to change?
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Yes.
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Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
#1
Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
This was written a few months ago, and I'm not sure if anyone else here has read it, but I think it's worth a shot. I might as well see the ex-gay sympathisers on this forum come out of the woodwork:

Wayne Besen Wrote:For decades, John Smid had been the leader of Love in Action, the infamous "ex-gay" ministry that took away the underwear of clients if the undergarments appeared too gay. The strict Memphis-based ministry also used an egg timer in the bathroom to make sure its clients would not masturbate while showering.

Of all the "ex-gay" ministries this was the most cult-like - with Smid keeping tight control over the social lives of his clients, who paid a pretty penny to live in the residential program.

The amount of mind control employed by Smid to turn gay people into heterosexuals was stunning. In a 1997 interview with the Memphis Flyer, Smid, spoke of his own special technique for denying reality: "I'm looking at that wall and suddenly I say it's blue," Smid said, pointing to a yellow wall. "Someone else comes along and says, ‘No, it's gold.' But I want to believe that wall is blue. Then God comes along and He says, ‘You're right, John, [that yellow wall] is blue.' That's the help I need. God can help me make that [yellow] wall blue."

This high level of brainwashing was not uncommon for Love in Action's star clients. For example, Anne Paulk, co-author of Love Won Out, wrote about the mind games she played to allegedly overcome her lesbian thoughts: "...I would start to experience a sexual response...So I'd look out the car window and say something like, ‘Gosh, lord, there' a tree out there! That tree is green, and it has leaves on it. It's got brown bark.' I would fix my mind on anything and everything to distract myself...over time that process made me mentally disciplined enough to displace all lesbian thoughts, period." (I photographed her "ex-gay" poster boy husband John in a gay bar)

Of course, such techniques can temporarily instill discipline to change sexual behavior - but not one's sexual orientation. In a stunning admission this week, Smid said that altering one's attractions are highly improbable - indeed so unlikely that he claims that he has not met a single man who truly prayed away the gay. According to Smid:

Yes, there are homosexuals that make dramatic changes in their lives as they walk through the transformation process with Jesus. I have heard story after story of changes that have occurred as men and women find the grace of God in their lives as homosexual people. But, I'm sorry, this transformation process may not meet the expectations of many Christians. I also want to reiterate here that the transformation for the vast majority of homosexuals will not include a change of sexual orientation. Actually I've never met a man who experienced a change from homosexual to heterosexual.

Wow. If the "ex-gay" myth did not work for Smid, then it won't work for anyone. After all, he had incredible dedication, adhered to a hardcore form of fundamentalism, and enforced a strict cult-like regimen on his charges. Yet, years later, he is faced with the daunting reality that "ex-gay" programs are a Religious Right marketing program, not a legitimate movement.

Needless to say, leaving the past completely behind is not easy. Smid is still married to his wife and on a journey to discover his inner-truth. He has one foot in the reality-based community and one foot in a fantasy world. But the first step in leaving the "ex-gay" charade behind is admitting that the programs do not work.

It is never easy for one to acknowledge being wrong, especially after decades of investing mentally, spiritually and financially in a big lie. I wish Smid the best of luck on his continued evolution and am grateful that he is beginning to honestly discuss the limitations of "ex-gay" programs.

Smid's timing is exquisite because desperate GOP presidential candidates are pandering to the Religious Right by touting the "ex-gay" myth. For example, on ABC's The View Herman Cain said that he thought homosexuality was a "choice." The ever-gay-bashing Rick Santorum also jumped on the "ex-gay" bandwagon falsely claiming there is credible evidence that say LGBT people can change from gay to straight: "There are all sorts of studies out there that suggest just the contrary," Santorum stated. "And there are people who were gay, and lived the gay lifestyle, and aren't anymore."

Additionally, there are junk science peddlers such as Regent University's Mark Yarhouse who produces bogus studies that claim that sexual orientation change is possible. I strongly suggest these crass political operatives stop the propaganda long enough to listen to Smid.

But, of course, that would require putting peoples' lives ahead of political lies - so don't expect this to happen anytime soon.

TL;DR: The man who ran one of the most infamous ex-gay ministries on Earth for over a quarter of a century has never seen a single gay person turn straight.

But don't take Wayne Besen's word for it. Here's the original blog post that's being commented upon.

Any thoughts or does everyone here think I'm just pointing out the obvious?
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#2
RE: Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
Sexual orientation changes in the way that a person might "experiment" in college.
You are what you are. Nothing more. Nothing less.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
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#3
RE: Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
i like blueberry muffins.

I also think that all humans are bisexual...just some lean harder in favor of the same sex than others.
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#4
RE: Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
(December 24, 2011 at 3:21 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: I also think that all humans are bisexual...just some lean harder in favor of the same sex than others.

it's a little bit more than that if you include the zooiphiles and paedophiles in that picture.
Given the chance, humans would collectively (if not individually) bone just about anything.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
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#5
RE: Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
(December 24, 2011 at 3:28 pm)TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:
(December 24, 2011 at 3:21 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: I also think that all humans are bisexual...just some lean harder in favor of the same sex than others.

it's a little bit more than that if you include the zooiphiles and paedophiles in that picture.
Given the chance, humans would collectively (if not individually) bone just about anything.

Pretty much right on it..
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#6
RE: Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
I voted "yes".... against my better judgement. I don't believe that it is possible for orientation to change in normal cases, but there have been cases of brain injury where formerly straight people have become gay as the brain rewired itself. Its extremely uncommon, but it does happen, and it points to a biological origin for sexual orientation. That being said, I believe sexual orientation is a permanent state for most people.
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#7
RE: Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
(December 24, 2011 at 4:29 pm)helmespc Wrote: I voted "yes".... against my better judgement. I don't believe that it is possible for orientation to change in normal cases, but there have been cases of brain injury where formerly straight people have become gay as the brain rewired itself. Its extremely uncommon, but it does happen, and it points to a biological origin for sexual orientation. That being said, I believe sexual orientation is a permanent state for most people.

Well, let's just hope that ex-gay ministries don't try that tactic.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#8
RE: Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
I voted "No". A gay person can't make themselves straight any more than a straight person can make themselves gay.

Prayer is useless in any instance.

I think it's possible for someone to delude themselves into believing anything, but it doesn't make it true.
42

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#9
RE: Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
You can't pray away the gay.

As a man, I can see another man and call him attractive. Doesn't mean I would like to do anything sexual with him. I just see he has a nice body, a good strong looking face and other attractive attributes.

As a man, I can see a woman and call her attractive. This usually means I would like to do a lot of sexual things with her Wink

I can't just pray to God, asking him to make me like male genitalia. Just won't happen.
Make America Great Again! Trump 2020
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#10
RE: Former Ex-Gay Activist Admits Gay People Don’t Change
(December 24, 2011 at 4:29 pm)helmespc Wrote: I voted "yes".... against my better judgement. I don't believe that it is possible for orientation to change in normal cases, but there have been cases of brain injury where formerly straight people have become gay as the brain rewired itself. Its extremely uncommon, but it does happen, and it points to a biological origin for sexual orientation. That being said, I believe sexual orientation is a permanent state for most people.

I wish for references because I find the concept of a brain injury changing something as ethereal as sexual identity to be fascinating, as fascinating as the man who survived a rail spike through the nogging, which utterly changed his personality.

Slave to the Patriarchy no more
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