The Death and Resurrection of Christ?

[jason56]

The truth forms naturally, conspiracies are formed by those who don't like the truth.

You'll work it out on your own, that's always the best way. xxx

[Minimalist]

People get crazy trying to push the details to make them fit, Pad. The fact is that the dying/resurrected god was a common motif in the ANE.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/582039/Tammuz

the myth ends with Inanna decreeing that Tammuz and his sister may alternate in the netherworld, each spending half of the year among the living.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/d/dionysus.html

Dionysus, also referred to as Zagreus in this account, is the son of Zeus and Persephone, Queen of the Underworld. Hera gets the Titans to lure the infant with toys, and then they rip him to shreds eating everything but Zagreus' heart, which is saved by either Athena, Rhea, or Demeter. Zeus remakes his son from the heart and implants him in Semele who bears a new Dionysus Zagreus. Hence, as in the earlier account, Dionysus is called "twice born." The latter account formed a part of the Orphic religion's religious mythology.

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/greek...ity=ADONIS

ARES was furious, and being of a boorish disposition, changed himself into a boar and killed ADONIS in a hunting accident. This resulted in much hair-pulling and scratching and shrieking in Olympus.

Eventually ZEUS decided it was time for a bit of peace. He declared that ADONIS was not totally dead, but could spend six months with each of them.

http://bet-ilim.blogspot.com/2011/11/dei...shmun.html

However, the young god bled to death as a result of his action. Astart carried the dead god into a nearby cave and restored him back to life with her power. Arisen once more, Eshmun became an underworld god.

The point of all this is that a dying and resurrected god would have been old hat to the populations of the region. There is an incessant desire on the part of some to want to reconcile every detail but sometimes you don't have to look past the major theme.

Jesus was merely the last incarnation of the dying/resurrected god. He was nothing special.

[houseofcantor]

Zeitgeist is a piece of shit. It's full of inaccuracies, however, there is something to be said for Jesus having some things in common with other gods throughout history.

Well yes,Christianity is a derivative religion,with not ONE new idea. It is also one of the earlier failed millennial religions.


THE most common element I've been able to find with other religions (apart from the moral code) is the resurrected god.THAT is common in many religions.

Two new ideas in one: free evangelism.

Meme of Horus I call that crap. It's all crap. I blame Paul. Somebody's gotta be the fall guy.

[ragou]

Hi everybody,
This is my first post.
At first I want to apologize for my poor English (it's not my birth language and even default. I am Bulgarian)
I browsed around atheistic forums tonight and surprisingly the level (in my opinion) was very low (especially about religion). The endless battles where the keyword is "proof". The facts are that, no one atheist can prove, that god doesn't exist and no one believer can prove the opposite. What's the difference between a person that BELIEVES that god exists and the person that BELIEVES that it doesn't?
We must look deeper. Religion is an instrument that is used by rulers to oppress people. You must work hard and not to complain. You must obey your master. The heaven is for the poor etc. But if you disagree you shall suffer, not there, but here. The communism is atheistic, but in purpose. The church owns peoples souls, and that is no good. You can rule in total only when you have peoples souls. So you declare that church is evil (and god doesn't exist) and the power is yours. Of course at first time you have to kill some 10-20 million people, for the rest to understand that there is no god. For the rest true believers (you can't kill everybody, because somebody has to work) - it's all right. I can wait for a generation - your children will be forced to be atheists just like you've been forced to believe in god before.
The main goal of atheism is to educate. The most important thing that my father thought me was "There is no god, there is science". Knowledge is power.

[Voltair]

Hi, this is my first post on this forum.

I come from a conservative Christian background, but I now doubt the existence of God. I probably doubt more now than believe. By question (which is probably very common) is thus: How did Christianity begin if Jesus Christ died and stayed dead?

Did the disciples start Christianity, and if so why did they say Christ had risen and that they had seen Him if it is false?

Hey Paradoxum:

Unfortunately we are dealing with an issue where a lot of the facts are not known and probably will never be known. The point a lot of people are making here, I think, is that Jesus may very well have existed but outside of the Bible and a controversial passage in Josephus we don't have evidence of his existence.

There are two sides of the camp one called Mythical Jesus I.E. that he was made up and one called Historical Jesus that believes he was at the least based off a real character. There are atheists on the historical and mythical sides and if you want to do a delightful romp through this debate I would check out freeratio's biblical criticism forum. To be honest though I don't think it is necessary to subject yourself to that unless you REALLY love digging into the details.

Regardless of whether or not Jesus existed the gospels which recorded him were not written until at least, according even to conservative estimates I believe, 30 years after the supposed time of his death. That is a lot of time for rumors, legends, etc to form. Not to mention gossip about this Jesus if he was real would have spread, changed forms, etc as it jumped from person to person.

The issue really is a mess because of the lack of historical sources outside of the biblical text. From my perspective if there was some divine hand behind Christianity and Jesus it wouldn't be so hard to find some reliable evidence of it. Clearly the divine being would know that not having good evidence could cause issues later.

There is also modern day figure you should google called
Sathya Sai Baba who died in April 2011. He was basically a modern day Jesus figure who had some things attributed to him which quite frankly are bullshit. The reason I mention this is to bring up the idea of people honestly being mistaken.

[Minimalist]

The endless battles where the keyword is "proof".

I prefer to concentrate on the lack of evidence for any of the gods which the theists announce they believe in.

It is not up to me to provide evidence that their god does not exist. It is up to them to show that he does.

I will accept your word about your English...although it seems pretty good to me. But some of the finer points may need a little work. Start here to understand the usage of the word "proof" versus "evidence."

http://www.digipac.ca/chemical/proof/index.htm


I surely agree with your assessment of the use of religion. To quote Thomas Jefferson:

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

---

[Anomalocaris]

I surely agree with your assessment of the use of religion. To quote Thomas Jefferson:

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

---

Not always, but close enough as to make no difference.

[houseofcantor]

Dionysus, also referred to as Zagreus in this account, is the son of Zeus and Persephone, Queen of the Underworld. Hera gets the Titans to lure the infant with toys, and then they rip him to shreds eating everything but Zagreus' heart, which is saved by either Athena, Rhea, or Demeter. Zeus remakes his son from the heart and implants him in Semele who bears a new Dionysus Zagreus. Hence, as in the earlier account, Dionysus is called "twice born." The latter account formed a part of the Orphic religion's religious mythology.

Here's some local insanity for ya:

I succeed, the world burns. I fail, the world burns. I get ripped apart by angry mobs. Gwynnie cries.

Tuesday night in August of 2005. Go to work as assistant construction superintendent. Leave work as a prophet of god. Go back to work a week later, not knowing what the fuck "prophet of god" actually means. Work wanted to make me official that November, but I hate driving. So now it's "ripped apart by angry mobs," cause Gwynnie's only crying over my dead body. Of course the world is burning, such is the nature of prophetic times; growing uncertainty in the mind of man focuses certainty in the mind of the prophet; a job requiring insanity.

I don't remember ever reading that stuff you posted. I've always been some form of atheist or another; the six-year spin of being a theist ended with me stuffing all theology into the tao te ching and claiming YHWH as my own. In linear fashion, this madness began with me drawing that girl; what continues this madness is the lack of physical reality twixt me and she.

It's always a story of dualities and 4; love and madness, tension and expression...

[Cinjin]

The truth forms naturally, conspiracies are formed by those who don't like the truth.

This is not accurate ... at least not universally. Some conspiracies have been shown to be true. Others have not.

Also, Christianity itself can be and has been called a conspiracy - and to an atheist/deist/agnostic/non-believer your statement would then be correct simply because we feel that no truth has ever been established of the deity of their god.

You see how your statement could be both true and completely false? Conspiracies can easily be formed by someone trying to uncover the truth while many others are formed to yes indeed conceal. Thus we have Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and all the other stupid religions of the world.

Perhaps you should tread more carefully with your blanket unbackable statements.

[houseofcantor]

The truth forms naturally, conspiracies are formed by those who don't like the truth.

This is not accurate ... at least not universally. Some conspiracies have been shown to be true. Others have not.

Also, Christianity itself can be and has been called a conspiracy - and to an atheist/deist/agnostic/non-believer your statement would then be correct simply because we feel that no truth has ever been established of the deity of their god.

You see how your statement could be both true and completely false? Conspiracies can easily be formed by someone trying to uncover the truth while many others are formed to yes indeed conceal. Thus we have Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and all the other stupid religions of the world.

Perhaps you should tread more carefully with your blanket unbackable statements.

Perhaps. I noticed the side stepping. What is truth non-local to the identity? Chemistry? Physics? Mathematics? Incompleteness?

I am Jesus Christ. A 4 completely false, but you know of what I speak, and I have been called Messiah by a Christian. Curiouser and curiouser says Alice, looking through the glass; the future is the past. Nothing lasts.