Hell is theologically impossible if God is omnipotent.

[Greatest I am]

Yeah, I agree. christianity sucks donkey balls.

I have had Christians ask me "What would it take for you to return to the faith"

I give them the same answer that I always hand out when asked such a question: "$10 million dollars cash."

I refuse to be a Christian unless I am very wealthy because of it. I refuse to be a dirt begging serf of a Christian.

You want me to be saved? Make me a pope. Give me a cadilac. Give me a mansion... then I will act llike I am a Christian.

Why? Because I know the REAL reason why Christianity was created.

You have forgotten that at that high office, you would also have to protect pedophiles.
That is the true Catholic way.

Regards
DL

---

EDIT: I think I'll post this in the Blasphemy II thread as well. It's good stuff.

Duh, the Christian asked, eh, what do you mean?

http://imgur.com/a/90sTN

Regards
DL

---

[
Adam and Eve disobeyed God it is as simple as that, God never through a fit. If you had the ability to understand a story of love and caring you would be able to understand the story of Adam and Eve. Since you do not understand the story that says what about you.

Yes they did. That is exactly saying they did their will and not Gods.
IOW, they used their free will. Something you say we all have and can use.

How should I understand the story?

As a fall the way Christians do?

Or.

As man's elevation, the way the Jews who wrote the story understand it?

Regards
DL

[Welsh cake]

You do not have to accept anything you do not want to, that's what freewill is all about, please try and show you are better than trying to twist others words around.

I'm not taking your words out of context, you're not making much sense. You're implying we either accept the gift of freewill which is to disobey God, or accept the gift of his sacrifice. You can't choose both, its a catch-22, and your god concept gets mightily pissed off if anyone rejects his commands and scorns his gifts, otherwise Hell wouldn't exist.

In any case, how is merely exercising our freedom, our will be done not god's, worthy of eternal damnation? Its either a gift or a curse GC you can't have your cake and eat it.

You make the decision about your eternity, God gives you what you choose. Can't get much more fair than that. The weeping and gnashing of teeth is for the wrong decision one makes, weeping and gnashing of teeth is about sorrow not pain.

What do you interpret Hell as?

Adam and Eve disobeyed God it is as simple as that, God never through a fit. If you had the ability to understand a story of love and caring you would be able to understand the story of Adam and Eve. Since you do not understand the story that says what about you.

Dude, read Genesis - he didn't love anymore. He wouldn't have kicked them out AND dealt out such harsh punishments if he did. However you interpret it its certainly not a story about the caring enduring relationship between creator and creation.

[Greatest I am]

G C

"Quote:
Shows how little you know of freewill and God for that matter, God does not torture and you can not show me that through the scriptures, you determine your destiny."

Esau was hated even in the womb by God.

Could he determine his destiny when it is said that God cannot change which means that Esau had no hope of changing God's mind or his own destiny.

Regards
DL

---

Most people even some christians mistake what freewill is. Freewill does not mean you can do just what you desire when ever you want to. The freewill that God has given us is this, you have a choice to accept him or reject him. After your choice, your life will reflect your choice and God could use you to complete his will for his creation.

Then its not freewill. Brush up on your understanding of words while you at it.

G C

Remember why you hate------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU

It might help you to communicate.

Regards
DL

[Aegrus]

Godschild-
You have yet to answer how free will can exist when who a person is is determined by the events and relationships in their life- events and relationships planned by god, as your post seemed to state. God sets up some people to succeed. God plans for others to fail by way of planning their entire life experience and knowing the outcome of their life. (Whether or not they accept god.)

Also- how does god not torture people, when hell is his creation and it is his choice to send people there or not? Even if people refuse to repent, they are still punished by god or his creation(s)- not by themselves. So it stands to reason that god is the one doing the torture, even if the sinner opted for it by refusing to repent.

Second: you asked me about negatives in the story of Adam and Eve. Sure.

'I will greatly multiply thy pain and thy travail; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee

This passage, of course, makes it clear that men should rule over women. I don't care why god did it to Eve, I don't think that all women forever should be punished for the sins of one person.

And then, of course, there's that women were created second, solely for the purpose of being companions of men. And then, Eve was weak-minded enough to listen to the serpent anyway.

I have humored you. Now, I expect straight answers in return. Stop thinking about how you can prove the bible right, and start wondering what is actually true.

[Godscreated]

Godschild-
You have yet to answer how free will can exist when who a person is is determined by the events and relationships in their life- events and relationships planned by god, as your post seemed to state. God sets up some people to succeed. God plans for others to fail by way of planning their entire life experience and knowing the outcome of their life. (Whether or not they accept god.)

Why want you read what I have stated, freewill extends to one choosing God or rejecting him. After that your choice will show up in the way you live and respond to God. Freewill has to do mostly with where you will spend eternity not necessarily throughout one's entire life.

Also- how does god not torture people, when hell is his creation and it is his choice to send people there or not? Even if people refuse to repent, they are still punished by god or his creation(s)- not by themselves. So it stands to reason that god is the one doing the torture, even if the sinner opted for it by refusing to repent.

How dense can people get, God does not make the choice, you do, I have and everyone will. God created hell for Lucifer and the fallen angels and those of mankind that refuse to accept his Son as their savior. Why can't you and others see this very simple concept, God made it simple so that even the simple minded like myself can understand.

Second: you asked me about negatives in the story of Adam and Eve. Sure.

'I will greatly multiply thy pain and thy travail; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This passage, of course, makes it clear that men should rule over women. I don't care why god did it to Eve, I don't think that all women forever should be punished for the sins of one person.

This is the punishment for disobedience, women through out the ages have continued to sin, so the punishment remains.

And then, of course, there's that women were created second, solely for the purpose of being companions of men. And then, Eve was weak-minded enough to listen to the serpent anyway.

I do not know why God chose to create man first, he did and that's that, God created Eve as a companion for Adam because he wanted him to have a partner. Also, since God wanted the world to be populated Adam had to have a partner, wouldn't you think. I'll let the women on this site deal with that last part, just to let you know I never saw her as weak-minded. Besides Adam was right there with her and he fell for the same lie.

I have humored you. Now, I expect straight answers in return. Stop thinking about how you can prove the bible right, and start wondering what is actually true.

I gave you straight answers, I know what the scriptures say, I've studied them for a good while and I will defend them till I die, so do not tell me how I should react to scripture.

---

Most people even some christians mistake what freewill is. Freewill does not mean you can do just what you desire when ever you want to. The freewill that God has given us is this, you have a choice to accept him or reject him. After your choice, your life will reflect your choice and God could use you to complete his will for his creation.

Then its not freewill. Brush up on your understanding of words while you at it.

G C

Remember why you hate------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU

It might help you to communicate.

Regards
DL

That's really dumb, first off it is a biased video, next I do not hate you or any other nonbeliever, answer me this why should I hate you, give me a reason, you must have one or you would not have posted that video, stand up and let me know.
Christianity is not about hate though I do admit that some christians come across that way and some probably do hate, that's not my call. Do not lay that stuff at my feet, you have no idea about who I am.

[The Grand Nudger]

Why want you read what I have stated, freewill extends to one choosing God or rejecting him. After that your choice will show up in the way you live and respond to God. Freewill has to do mostly with where you will spend eternity not necessarily throughout one's entire life.

You guys are missing it entirely. What GC wants here is a way to pass the buck for all of the inequity and evil in the world onto man whilst being able to claim his god is omni [insert whatever here]. He hasn't thought it through, he won't think it through...you're wasting your time. It's not an explanation he wants, just a scapegoat. Look at how he ends this one..."It's not about this life".... this demonstrable, quantifiable life...

And then....

How dense can people get, God does not make the choice, you do, I have and everyone will. God created hell for Lucifer and the fallen angels and those of mankind that refuse to accept his Son as their savior. Why can't you and others see this very simple concept, God made it simple so that even the simple minded like myself can understand.

No one likes to be called out for consistently making completely retarded statements. It's pretty common to lash out with the "nuh uh, you are" defense. You, GC, not god, have made this simple. You've done so by avoiding any thought on the matter whatsoever.

So what's next?....

I do not know why God chose to create man first, he did and that's that, God created Eve as a companion for Adam because he wanted him to have a partner. Also, since God wanted the world to be populated Adam had to have a partner, wouldn't you think. I'll let the women on this site deal with that last part, just to let you know I never saw her as weak-minded. Besides Adam was right there with her and he fell for the same lie.

No, you don't, because he didn't, because it never happened. Why would Adam need a partner to populate the world with...didn't god just "populate the world" with Adam sans parents or partners anyway? Quick q...do you reckon Adam was an innie or an outtie? No one fell for any lie, there was no snake....there was no garden.

I gave you straight answers, I know what the scriptures say, I've studied them for a good while and I will defend them till I die, so do not tell me how I should react to scripture.

---

You've wasted your time, clearly. Not only have you been "studying" myth as fact, you've somehgow managed to do this without ever securing any real knowledge of the myth in the first place. I'm usually content with being snarky, but on this count I genuinely feel bad for you. As for the last bit, judging by your forum persona..you probably shouldn't read scripture at all, it's fucked you up massively.

Most people even some christians mistake what freewill is. Freewill does not mean you can do just what you desire when ever you want to. The freewill that God has given us is this, you have a choice to accept him or reject him. After your choice, your life will reflect your choice and God could use you to complete his will for his creation.

You can't even demonstrate that it exists, let alone that others have somehow made an error whilst you miraculously discovered "the truth". Freewill doesn't mean anything at all GC (at least not in the context of your posts). It's just a platitude...something you've been taught to say. God didn't give us anything, your god doesn't exist (probably mentioned that before, but you seem to need constant reminding). Wait, did you just link a post that says that my life would reflect my choice after opening your current post with some drivel about how free will isn't really about this life anyway. Jackass move. Now you have to hand-wave all those dirty ass christians away just like you did last time.

That's really dumb, first off it is a biased video, next I do not hate you or any other nonbeliever, answer me this why should I hate you, give me a reason, you must have one or you would not have posted that video, stand up and let me know.
Christianity is not about hate though I do admit that some christians come across that way and some probably do hate, that's not my call. Do not lay that stuff at my feet, you have no idea about who I am.

Christianity is about whatever the believer wants it to be about, clearly. GC, has it ever occurred to you that what we know about "who you are" is directly related to the things you post?

[Greatest I am]

[quote='Godschild' pid='227312' dateline='1326344754']

[quoThat's really dumb, first off it is a biased video, next I do not hate you or any other nonbeliever, answer me this why should I hate you, give me a reason, you must have one or you would not have posted that video, stand up and let me know.
Christianity is not about hate though I do admit that some christians come across that way and some probably do hate, that's not my call. Do not lay that stuff at my feet, you have no idea about who I am.

Any who follow a God who hates enough to make those he loves suffer eternal hell and who are told to emulate God, as scripture urges you to do, must hate all others not of your ilk.

Your idol is a genocidal son murdering maniac and you are to follow in his footsteps.
Have a nice walk and enjoy your stay in heaven as you watch your friends and family fry forever.

Regards
DL

[reverendjeremiah]

You have forgotten that at that high office, you would also have to protect pedophiles.
That is the true Catholic way.

That would be easy as Hell, considering the church has tons and tons of money and the law enforcers are hesitant to arrest a "holy" man. Just ship them off to another country and blame it all on the atheists, homosexuals, and the children. As long as I dont back down from this position I can protect the rapists indefinitely. Diplomatic Immunity also helps keep us safe from being prosecuted

---

Christianity is not about hate though I do admit that some christians come across that way and some probably do hate, that's not my call. Do not lay that stuff at my feet, you have no idea about who I am.

this coming from the man who keeps swearing up and down that Hell isnt a lake of fire...I think your opinion on Christianity is just as worthless as your opinion on evolution.

[genkaus]

That's really dumb, first off it is a biased video, next I do not hate you or any other nonbeliever, answer me this why should I hate you, give me a reason, you must have one or you would not have posted that video, stand up and let me know.
Christianity is not about hate though I do admit that some christians come across that way and some probably do hate, that's not my call. Do not lay that stuff at my feet, you have no idea about who I am.

I never thought I would ever agree with a theist regarding anything related to god, but I have to say that the video is quite biased. The narrator makes quite a few good points about the concepts of rejection and feelings associated, nevertheless he makes certain critical errors in his arguments.

1. First of all, the narrator makes certain broad sweeping generalizations about both theists and atheists, which, even if shown to be applicable to most of the people from either category, would still not be universal.

Not all theists view god as a projection of their idealized subconscious self. Actually, other than having some vague ideas about him, most theists do not consider the nature of god at all. The shown representation of a theist would be specific to those who believe in a personal god.

Similarly, not all atheists are skeptics. Some even disbelieve in the idea on grounds of reason - such as if you ask someone to believe in square circles. Still others may reject the idea on different grounds.

2. The narrator makes quite a big leap of logic in saying that when Anthony is rejecting Gloria, he actually rejected an idealized and fictional version of Gloria which actually happens to be idealized and fictional version of Theresa herself. The moral of the story being, unless someone rejects you or the idealized version of you, you would not feel the emotions associated with rejection.

There is more to it than that. The anger and frustration can also be a response to the idea that one is wrong. Imagine if a theist asks himself - "God's existence should be obvious to any rational person and yet here we have a rational, intelligent human being who is an atheist. He's making sound arguments and I can't find a flaw in them. So what if the premise I'm going on is wrong. The assumption on which my daily rituals and habits are based, the assumption which gives me my code of conduct - if that is wrong what would happen to my life?"

The anger and frustration in that case is not so much a response to rejection but more of a fear based response against perceived threat to their lifestyle.

3. The narrator erroneously concludes that belief is not a matter of choice but the only possible consequence of the evidence you have been presented. While he's correct in saying that matters of truth are independent of desiribility, truth and belief are not synonymous.

Evidence does not just walk up to you itself. You have to look for it. Even if it was to be presented on a silver platter, you can still choose not to look at it. Even after looking at it you must choose to understand it. Understanding would not come automatically. You have to ask yourself what concepts does this evidence support, which does it contradict and why. Otherwise it would have no greater effect on your beliefs than a rock put forward. The narrator himself stresses the importance of being honest with oneself.

All these are choices one must make before one rationally holds a belief. This process is not automatic or compulsory. If it was, then because of all the evidence he has been presented, Kent Hovind would have been a evolutionary biologist.

[Aegrus]

Quote: "This is the punishment for disobedience, women through out the ages have continued to sin, so the punishment remains."

Whoever agrees with this ^ is a sexist bigot.

The bible does indeed contain sexism, as does the story of Adam and Eve. I have proven that with a quote which, so far, no one has denied the existence of.

Rather than deny that the sexism exists, the bigoted poster seems completely okay with the sexism and believes it to be justified.