Islam true religion?

[Doubting Thomas]

Think about it, if there is creation then there must be a creator.

Who or what created the creator? If the creator exists, then he/she/it must have been created by something else. If you claim that the creator always existed or somehow didn't need to be created, then you're just using special pleading which is a fallacy.

[Zakir_250]

Zakir, one way in which the Christians have misled you is in the notion that links are a form of argumentation. They don't know any better, they think appeal to authority is an argument, but it's usually a fallacy. A good argument can stand on its own merits and doesn't require that theperson making it have credentials.

Here are the arguments we have heard from you so far:

The Quran is well-written, therefore it is true. This isn't an argument, it is a non-sequitur. It could be badly-written and true or perfectly-written and false.

Scientists are converting to Islam. Appeal to authority, and anyway there's no clear trend of scientists converting to Islam. Some do, sure. Some convert to Christianity or become atheists or Buddhists or whatever, too. You haven't provided any evidence of a significant trend. If there were a significant trend, it would not establish that it is for scientific reasons or emotional ones.

A very tiny percentage of scientists who happen to be Muslim think they have evidence that the moon was once split in two, while pretty much all other scientists in the word find the notion ludicrous. You support it with a story about a king, that we have no way of knowing wasn't made-up. In all the word, no one else noted the moon being split in two.

Mohammed was a trustworthy fellow, so what he said is true. How do you know he was a trustworthy fellow? Because the Qu'ran and Hadiths say so. Who were the Hadiths written by? Muslims, who must presuppose their prophet is trustworthy. Who was the Qu'ran written by? Who knows? Pieces of it were floating all over the region until it was finally compiled into one book. Maybe it was dictated by Mohammed, maybe a portion of it was and others are interpolations. When a trustworthy fellow says he split the moon in two, I don't believe him. When he makes such an incredible claim without strong evidence to back it up, at that point it is clear that I was mistaken about him being trustworthy. He is clearly lying or delusional. Hell, if I thought the moon split in two and others didn't agree with me and natural disasters weren't happening left and right, I'd conclude that I am delusional. The fact that Mohammed can say he split the moon and rode around on a flying donkey and you still think he's trustworthy says more about you than about Mohammed.

Now here is a pro tip: instead of replying with a bunch of links, make your own argument to refute my rebuttal to your claims. Speak for yourself.

I want your replies to the prophecies I just posted. As for this post, I will respond later.

[Mister Agenda]

Zakir, in order for a prediction to be impressive, you have to know it was made before the occurrence. Someone predicting something happening in a book and it happening later on in the same book isn't impressive. You have to assume it's true in the first place to be impressed by it. Lots of religions claim impressive predictions and they all tend to suffer from this same flaw.

Before the end of this sentence I am going to spell a word backwards, do you kniht that requires a direct line to Allah? In the year after the hurricane in southern part of the northern continent, a great wave will kill many thousands in the East. A little cryptic, but it would be kind of impressive if we could establish details like I made it before Katrina and the Boxing Day Tsunami, and I didn't write so many cryptic predictions that one of them was like to come true just from chance. We have to have good reason to believe it was a prophecy being written and not history couched in the language of prophecy. There's a reason why skepticism has risen in this age where it's easy to check facts. People tend to embellish or get details wrong when they repeat stories they've heard, no ill intent required, it's human nature. The evidence in the Qur'an is hearsay: some people who lived a long time ago had an oral tradition, when it was written down it became possible to make sure it was copied consistently but before that all that was available was memory and good intentions...and a desire to convince people the prophet was the greatest man who ever lived. It's a perfect recipe for exagerration.

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I want your replies to the prophecies I just posted. As for this post, I will respond later.

And I want your own thoughts on the matter. I want you to make your own case. You don't see me linking to 'whypropheciesinthekoranarefalse.com' instead of speaking for myself. I would like the same courtesy. My position is that we have no way of knowing if those prophecies were made before the fact. Therefore I can dismiss them unless you can provide evidence that they were made before the fact and that the prophesied event really took place.

[Zakir_250]

Look at these people who converted to Islam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmZDpa2F8...re=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPObQyV09...re=related

Why does Islam grow like this but Atheism doesn't?

Your post basically just summarises the what everyone is saying. The moon did split according to evidence and name me one scientist who converted to Christianity? I can name a lot who converted to Islam.

Seriously, why is everyone converting to Islam after doing open minded research? Even atheists like this man are converting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHZgmA6qC...re=related

[Whateverist]

Perhaps it is just easier to stop thinking for oneself and submit to authoritative answers? I don't know, what do you think?

[Darwinian]

Why does Islam grow like this but Atheism doesn't?

It doesn't.

The moon did split according to evidence.

No it didn't.

and name me one scientist who converted to Christianity? I can name a lot who converted to Islam.

Go on then.

Seriously, why is everyone converting to Islam after doing open minded research?

They're not.

[Zakir_250]

It doesn't. = Check the converts statistics


No it didn't. = I showed unrefutable evidence


Go on then. = E. Marshall Johnson, Keith Moore, Maurice Buchalle, T.V.N Persuad and many more. I can go on and on but you get the point.



They're not. = Really? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx0Ti97lD...re=related She was a Christian who educated herself.

[Whateverist]

This is beginning to smell of straight up proselytizing. I guess if we want to be among the popular/smart people we'd better convert to Islam.

[Zakir_250]

This is beginning to smell of straight up proselytizing. I guess if we want to be among the popular/smart people we'd better convert to Islam.

Not really. Everyone is saying Islam isn't the fasted growing religion and I am just producing evidence to why it is.

You are all quoting out of context verses showing you lack knowledge

[Cyberman]

This is getting desperately sad now if it wasn't already. Would you accept the Appeal to Popularity as a valid slam-dunk argument the way you expect us to if you were presented with videos/statistics/figures/whatever showing that atheism is rapidly on the rise? Or Buddhism? How about Scientology?