Marriage Poll

[Kyuuketsuki]

Oh and congratulations Kyu! (Y)

Thank you and religious implications aside (not absolutely sure you made any, I just skimmed) I agree with you ... commitment is crucial in any relationship IMO (but especially in marriage).

Kyu

[Edwardo Piet]

I've grown to hate anti commitment. It's incredibly selfish I think. It's also a blokes dream, and abusive to women, even if women aren't unanimous in condemnation of it, I personally hold that it's a blokes dream to be a kid forever and have no commitment.

(My bolding).

Well fr0d0, if you are talking about ME saying I'm not big about 'commitment' - then I am saying that your argument is a serious strawman in response to mine.

(If it's not a response to mine then ignore that - you must just have a different interpretation).

I am in no way suggesting going around sleeping around or being abusive to women!! On the fucking contrary!

I am saying that I think using 'commitment' (notice the scare quotes) as something to 'hold on to' to 'keep the relationship going' takes the meaning out the relationship.

I WANT a long lasting, loving, relationship. I just think that if I can have one without 'commitment' or 'marriage' then it shows how strong and loving the relationship really IS...

If problems can be worked out WITHOUT 'commitment' if people can love each other WITHOUT 'promising' ("I promise I will stay for ever and ever and ever" etc), - and stay together WITHOUT that - I think then that shows how truly spontaneous and natural the Love really IS.

I think the 'commitment', the 'promising' the 'marriage' is trivial and superficial compared to the actual feelings and love...to actually caring about your partner.

With kids it is different as I have said before...it may be best to say in an UNloving relationship just for the kids....

But I think if two people can show their love without having to ATTACH things like 'commitment', 'marriage', etc, - then I think that's a mark of true, natural and free love...

And as to Love only being around early on...well...I wouldn't want to be in a relationship for years if I only actually loved that person early on!! I want to LOVE the person I'm WITH. And I think if I can do that without attaching 'commitment' or 'marriage' to it... - if we can just stay together naturally because we truly love each other that much - then I think that's just a mark of how much we love each other.

EvF

[fr0d0]

I think you're trying to reinvent the word commitment Evie. What you're describing IS commitment,only you're scared of the word.

[Edwardo Piet]

Well that's an impressive argument lol.../end sarcasm.

I'm trying to reinvent it yet I am describing it correctly?

When did I speak about changing it? I spoke out rejecting it because I think it's superficial (kind of manufactured, artificial)....

If I am describing it correctly and speaking of REJECTING it (because it's superficial) then how am I trying to REINVENT it? When have I suggested THAT?

I have already said many times why I think it's unworthy...unless you can actually come up with an argument against it fr0d0 then I can't really say any more...

I've given my reasons (several times).

[Giff]

I've grown to hate anti commitment. It's incredibly selfish I think

Why would it be slefish? Don't know why the opnion to not like commitment to be selfsih. I don't like commitment for an example and don't concider myself as specially selfish.

[Edwardo Piet]

It's a stawman.

[fr0d0]

EvF said:
"I WANT a long lasting, loving, relationship. I just think that if I can have one without 'commitment' or 'marriage' then it shows how strong and loving the relationship really IS..."

You want commitment, but you hate commitment. Is what I see you're saying there. You want marriage, but you don't want marriage. We already have words for those things, but because of the negative connotations, you reject the word.

"I think the 'commitment', the 'promising' the 'marriage' is trivial and superficial compared to the actual feelings and love...to actually caring about your partner."

They just happen to be what we call love borne out.

"But I think if two people can show their love without having to ATTACH things like 'commitment', 'marriage', etc, - then I think that's a mark of true, natural and free love..."

I call it denial.

[Edwardo Piet]

I don't want 'commitment' I want to be able to stay with someone WITHOUT having to 'commit'

I just want it to happen naturally through genuine love...without the superficial bullshit icing on the lovely (and loving lol) cake

And no....I don't want marriage at all.

And I think you're in denial if you think you can only love each other IF you have to make a 'commitment'.... (Unless you REALLY believe you can only love by throwing in a 'commitment' (even though you could easily un-commit anyway so it's superficial bullshit))I mean - if someone loves me a love they will do WITHOUT a 'commitment' because which is more important when it comes down to it? Love and compassion or commitment and attachment?

EvF

[Kyuuketsuki]

Ev ... that's what Frodo is trying to say as I read him. No one is saying you HAVE to commit (and I'm sure there are those who get married because they feel they have to), but in the long run, if you love someone enough, you just want to because that person means just about everything to you. So you give the commitment because it takes you above and beyond the ordinary relationship.

Commitment, when done freely (because you want to) isn't a prison, isn't a restriction, isn't an imposition ... it's what you want.

Kyu

[fr0d0]

Yes Kyu. I was struggling to get that out. Thanks.