Secularization and the destruction of marriage

[Anomalocaris]

I was really thinking about the benefits of long term relationships. From what I understand positive long term relationships are good for one's health. Futhermore the ability to make and maintain these relationships is a sign of psychological health and maturity. I used to have some citeable information on this but that was years and years ago. All I can do now without reresearching it is give anecdotal evidence. Personallyh I can't see how anyone can mature well if they don't learn how to get along with people.

As for breeding itself. You need to consider much more than just a pregnancy. That infant must survive to breeding age. In the past this required more than one parent. From what I understand in the distant past it required the efforts of the entire tribe (protection etc.). These days a child can survive to breeding age quite well on the efforts of just one parent.

And which of these has not been abundantly achieved outside of christianity? Fact remains christianity is unnecessary to the execution of marriage, and in the long run deadly to the ultimate purpose of marriage, a fact it doesn't even disguise through its sickening yet infantile eschatology.

[Ziploc Surprise]

Don't know about the veracity of the claim, but the link below claims that the divorce rate in the religious is higher than in non-believers.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

If that's true, I can hardly see how more religion will help.

As my disclaimer suggested I've heard of these statistics before and I question them. I see too many variables that could skew things. This does not mean that I'm unwilling to be convened of your point, it only means I'm skeptical. Thanks for posting the link. I promise to look at it soon. I'm hoping to find links to any studies that show how the statistics were obtained.

It wasn't my point to make. I'm skeptical of the numbers as well, which is why I said I didn't know whether the claims were true. Just presenting them as fodder for discussion.

Well thanks for the fodder. I just read the article you linked to. It brought up even more factors that I didn't consider. It looks like getting real numbers on the situation is difficult at best because it is a multifaceted problem with many factors that effect it.

Also I think it may confirm that there are two things to consider in this argument. First is the divorce rate, second is the ability to keep and maintain long term relationships. I think people have been combing the two or confusing the two hence the misunderstandings of the situation I have been hearing over the years.

Do you think it's safe to say that religious people are (knowingly or unknowingly) oversimplifying the problem to confirm their own bias?

[Jackalope]

Do you think it's safe to say that religious people are (knowingly or unknowingly) oversimplifying the problem to confirm their own bias?

I think it's say that people of all stripes with an agenda can fall victim to (or intentionally employ) oversimplification and confirmation bias - as well as manipulate any factoid that appears to support whatever agenda they are pushing.

In this particular case, I'd say yes to all of the above. Whether it's intentional or not is left as an exercise for the reader.

[jupitor]

Marriage was introduced by cavemen and not religion but in those days they died before reaching mid thirties so till death us do part didn't mean much

[LarissaAnn]

I think people's increasing stupidity and lack of both ability and willingness to compromise and communicate contributes to failed marriages.

[Doubting Thomas]

1) On the surface the value of religion in discouraging divorce is to force married couples to stay together thus forcing them to work things out – to learn to live with one another.

A lofty goal... unless the relationship is abusive. My wife's sister was in a psychologically and on one or two occasions physically abusive marriage. Her husband used her Catholic faith against her, telling her how much of a sin it is in the Catholic faith to get divorced. It was just a manipulation tactic since he's not Catholic, but it worked because she stayed with him longer than she should have.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm wondering why anyone holds up marriage as we've engineered it as some sort of paragon of goodness in the first place. Maybe we smuggled in a bunch of fucked up shit into our notions of marriage to begin with, and it could use a little bit of dropping the unnecessary baggage. Just my two cents. You marry those you feel an abnormally strong familiarity with, and you stay married up until the point where that familiarity has vanished, or the point at which that familiarity becomes a vehicle for one or both parties to exploit destructively, then it's null and void. I don't see a problem with this.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I think that secularization does not bring the destruction of family values.
What brings the destruction of family values is discarding them as *old fashioned* or *relativist* and not recognizing their importance for the survival of society. Secularism simply states that religion is a personal matter. Nothing more. Nothing less. And it it only there where it has an effect. It does not tell you to bring about illegitimate children, it does not tell you to divorce your husband/wife at the first sign of trouble within marriage, it does not tell you to allow your daughter to sleep around with guys, nor does it tell you not to marry, instead lead a life of unlawful cohabitation which has no recognition before the state, nor the people.

[Aldrich]

Living with someone is a huge step even if you love them more than anything, and it takes time to work the kinks out. I think anyone considering marriage should have a trial period of living together first.

[Ziploc Surprise]

Living with someone is a huge step even if you love them more than anything, and it takes time to work the kinks out. I think anyone considering marriage should have a trial period of living together first.

This is just my opionion, I'm not trying to preach, but I also think you should live together for a while before having children. Develop a strong relationship with your spouse/significant other before bringing children into the mix. Sometimes the stress of child rearing can drive couples apart. I know this can't always be done, so many are divorced with children from a previous marriage. I apologize if I sound like a dinosaur, it's just an opinion. I can be convinced if someone can show me something better.