God heals through modern medicine?

[Minimalist]

He thinks anything that fucks his god up the ass is a conspiracy.

[Undeceived]

Undecieved, researchers like embryonic stem cells because quote: "embryonic stem cells still have the advantage in their ability to differentiate more readily than adult stem cells." >adult stem cells are not easily grown after isolation from mature adult tissues." "Adult stem cells are more likely to have abnormalities from DNA mutations, which can occur due to any number of factors. The 'youth' of embryonic stem cells means that they are less likely to carry mutations and they also regenerate much more quickly than adult stem" cells."http://www.explorestemcells.co.uk/adultvsembryonicstemcells.html

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/ar..._cell.html

"It has been known for about 30 years that stem cells are present in the tissue of the adult, but it was assumed that they could only form cells of a particular tissue. That is, reprogramming them was considered impossible. In recent years, however, pluripotent stem cells were discovered in various human tissues–in the spinal cord, in the brain, in the mesenchyme (connective tissue) of various organs, and in the blood of the umbilical cord. These pluripotent stem cells are capable of forming several cell types–principally blood, muscle, and nerve cells. It has been possible to recognize, select, and develop them to the point that they form mature cell types with the help of growth factors and regulating proteins. This shows that in tissues of the body, adult stem cells possess a much greater potential for differentiation than previously assumed."

In other words, adult stem cells differentiate just fine for the purpose they are given. There is no advantage to doing so "more readily" in lab settings. That's lawyer lingo. Your article says that adult stem cells are more likely to have abnormalities, but what is the whole point of research? To cure the person. Meaning, embryonic stem cells have better turnouts in labs but, according to my article, not in the person who needs the cure: "There are no rejection reactions, because the cells are from the same body." So adult stem cells have been more successful in the real world where it matters.

[genkaus]

1. Do people expect God to clean up every mistake of ours? Most amputees are result of direct or indirect sin. Our body's frailty and imperfection is a result of original sin.

A fine example of blaming the victim. And I guess the altar boys wanted the priest's "holy spirit" to enter them?

What is important is not whether it was the result of a sin or not, what's important is if it was the result of their sin. But that wouldn't bother you Christians so much, since you love scapegoating others for your faults.s

2. We're closer to God when we're weak. Most people admit they are changed for the better after or during a calamity.

A religion that glorifies mediocrity and weakness would be espoused by the mediocre and the weak. Q.E.D.

3. The afterlife matters more than this one. Some amputees inspire people or could if they made the effort to. They accomplish a purpose they wouldn't have without their disability.

And argument expected from a religion that seeks death to all. Yours is a philosophy of death - not of life.

4. We'd be irresponsible if our limbs regenerated freely. Kids might be more likely to go to war or jump off roofs for fun. Admit it, you'd at least cut your finger to try it out.

Ofcourse, we would.
Like how we know our hair would grow back - so we spend our days tearing them out?
Or how we know that our body would regenerate blood - so we spend our time cutting and bleeding ourselves? Women have even turned it into a ritual. Bleeding themselves for the fun of it a few days every month.

5. Maybe God has given us multiple opportunities for a scientific breakthrough... and we failed by aborting 1.5 billion babies in the last 60 years. Imagine if one had the cure for cancer too.

He is a moron if he gave the opportunity to a baby he knew was going to get aborted.

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Your article says that adult stem cells are more likely to have abnormalities, but what is the whole point of research? To cure the person. Meaning, embryonic stem cells have better turnouts in labs but, according to my article, not in the person who needs the cure: "There are no rejection reactions, because the cells are from the same body." So adult stem cells have been more successful in the real world where it matters.

No, you moron. Stem sells are not used to develop a cure for the person they were taken from. They are used to cure someone else. Otherwise, it'd be like transfusing the person with his own blood.

[Welsh cake]

1. Do people expect God to clean up every mistake of ours?

Who else? What are there other gods in your monotheistic belief system now? If you fuck the culmination of your life's work up or allow it to go awry no else in going to step in and sort it out. God needs to man up and accept some responsibility. Part of his creation that's self-aware already knows he's not a perfect being, he should get over it. Heck, Peter Parker accepted responsibility for all of New York City and all he does is shoot webs!

Most amputees are result of direct or indirect sin. Our body's frailty and imperfection is a result of original sin.

So why can't or won't God heal just them then? Is he not God but some pretender then?

2. We're closer to God when we're weak.

Labourers, professional boxers and wrestlers must be the most evil people alive according to you.

I'm weak and an atheist. Your analogy is dumb and so are you.

Most people admit they are changed for the better after or during a calamity.

I bet people after the Chernobyl disaster, 1931 China floods, 1839 India Cyclone and 2010 Haiti earthquake were all laughing and singing right?

3. The afterlife matters more than this one.

So why does your god judge us only in this trivial life then? This "door mat" to wipe our feet onto to the next life? Why are we not already in the afterlife? Your religion makes NO sense.

4. We'd be irresponsible if our limbs regenerated freely.

Doesn't seem to bother Newts.

5. Maybe God has given us multiple opportunities for a scientific breakthrough...

Maybe he didn't.

[Jaysyn]

1. Do people expect God to clean up every mistake of ours? Most amputees are result of direct or indirect sin. Our body's frailty and imperfection is a result of original sin.
2. We're closer to God when we're weak. Most people admit they are changed for the better after or during a calamity.
3. The afterlife matters more than this one. Some amputees inspire people or could if they made the effort to. They accomplish a purpose they wouldn't have without their disability.

You forgot the most important one:

0.) God can't heal amputees because God doesn't exist except as a concept in the human mind.


Also, you are a disgustingly deluded human being.

[Ziploc Surprise]

Well, before Undecieved got here it looked like this thread had run it's course. Now it looks like things will get interesting.

Undecieved, researchers like embryonic stem cells because quote: "embryonic stem cells still have the advantage in their ability to differentiate more readily than adult stem cells." >adult stem cells are not easily grown after isolation from mature adult tissues." "Adult stem cells are more likely to have abnormalities from DNA mutations, which can occur due to any number of factors. The 'youth' of embryonic stem cells means that they are less likely to carry mutations and they also regenerate much more quickly than adult stem" cells."http://www.explorestemcells.co.uk/adultvsembryonicstemcells.html

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/ar..._cell.html

"It has been known for about 30 years that stem cells are present in the tissue of the adult, but it was assumed that they could only form cells of a particular tissue. That is, reprogramming them was considered impossible. In recent years, however, pluripotent stem cells were discovered in various human tissues–in the spinal cord, in the brain, in the mesenchyme (connective tissue) of various organs, and in the blood of the umbilical cord. These pluripotent stem cells are capable of forming several cell types–principally blood, muscle, and nerve cells. It has been possible to recognize, select, and develop them to the point that they form mature cell types with the help of growth factors and regulating proteins. This shows that in tissues of the body, adult stem cells possess a much greater potential for differentiation than previously assumed."

In other words, adult stem cells differentiate just fine for the purpose they are given. There is no advantage to doing so "more readily" in lab settings. That's lawyer lingo. Your article says that adult stem cells are more likely to have abnormalities, but what is the whole point of research? To cure the person. Meaning, embryonic stem cells have better turnouts in labs but, according to my article, not in the person who needs the cure: "There are no rejection reactions, because the cells are from the same body." So adult stem cells have been more successful in the real world where it matters.

I don't have much time to research this right now but from the research I've done so far, your doctor, Wolfgang Lillge, M.D., is suspect. BTW Lyndon LaRouche loves him though. I don't see any legitimate journals but I don't have time to check this completely. Usually with legitimate scientists it's much easier to check credentials and where they publish. Since you'rs didn't come up after some effort, I suspect him and his research but I don't have time to chase it down. There are other reasons I suspect this but I don't have time to go into it.

Remember last time we had a discussion I said you need to look beyond the information that the church feeds you? Do this, and while your at it be careful about internet research. When you research anything (I can't believe I have to instruct you on proper research techniques) on the internet you will find a few articles that will support what you want to believe. You need to look at the big picture. What art the majority of scientists saying? Has the research you favor been up for peer review? Are his or her experiments been reproduced? How long has it been since publication and have other scientist had the time to respond to it? What are the credentials of the scientist? Is this scientist publishing in legitimate journals? I could go on about this but the point is that peer review is an essential part of the scientific method. You need to look at these things before you believe. For anyone else reading this, I admit I am sounding rather condescending towards undeceived. Understand that there is some history here. Undeceived has a history of doing the things that can lead to self deception, one of them is pathetic research.

As for the "Lawyer lingo" comment: This was scientific language. It's purpose is to be as unambiguous as possible. Specifics are very important in scientific communication.

Your article says that "adult stem cells are more likely to have abnormalities, but what is the whole point of research? " This is too stupid to debate

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[quote='Undeceived' pid='255215' dateline='1331867767']
Also, you are a disgustingly deluded human being.

Oh but he's a very cheery and polite disgustingly deluded human being. Like I always say If you're going to be an idiot, be a happy idiot.

[The Grand Nudger]

Wait..what, amputees have somehow sinned, directly or indirectly, and this is why they lost a limb. So the guy working the CNC drill who loses his balance and drills through his forearm somehow sinned? How, by losing his balance (and who precisely installed such a faulty mechanism for balance in the first place)? What a petty fucking god you have there. The person who is overan by a trucker asleep at the wheel somehow sinned? How, by driving in front of a sleepy trucker (and who designed the requirement for sleep into our frail bodies in the first place)? If you're willing to wave away a sin on their part directly, instead referring to the sins of others, the "original sin", then you're espousing the idea that god is busily engaged (every day and everywhere and for all time) in punishing people severely and permanently for the crimes of others, even unto some shady point in the forgotten past or distant future. It doesn't strike you as strange that god's "fallen creation" is capable of creating a system more just than this while still being two hairs away from a fucking chimpanzee? I don't think I've ever had occasion to use this word in response to a post on these forums because I think it's a fairly petty word..but that's easily the most retarded thing I've ever seen anyone have balls to type. The level of indifference and contempt that a person has to have towards his fellow man to even begin to contemplate that bullshit is staggering.

Something to ponder. When I say "fuck your god" to a member of the contemptible subset of the faithful, in what way is this different from simply saying "fuck you"?

[genkaus]

Wait..what, amputees have somehow sinned, directly or indirectly, and this is why they lost a limb. So the guy working the CNC drill who loses his balance and drills through his forearm somehow sinned? How, by losing his balance (and who precisely installed such a faulty mechanism for balance in the first place)? What a petty fucking god you have there. The person who is overan by a trucker asleep at the wheel somehow sinned? How, by driving in front of a sleepy trucker (and who designed the requirement for sleep into our frail bodies in the first place)?

Don't forget the most sinful of them all. The soldier who lost his legs when a missile landed near him when he was busy defending his country's freedom. God really must hate that one.

[The Grand Nudger]

Unless he shouts "allah hu akbar" or whatever synonymous phrase the faithful of another stripe would babble on about before doing so. Then it's paradise or virgins or riches beyond measure or whatever the fuck else the faithful wish to surround themselves with in the next life while violently condemning is this one.

Sorry Billy, a couple of mythical people to which you are not related or even associated with pissed me off in a story somewhere so I'm going to have to chop off one of your limbs. This is all somehow your fault, of course, and I'm only doing it because I love you. All praise be to me.

[genkaus]

Unless he shouts "allah hu akbar" or whatever synonymous phrase the faithful of another stripe would babble on about before doing so. Then it's paradise or virgins or riches beyond measure or whatever the fuck else the faithful wish to surround themselves with in the next life while violently condemning is this one.

Oh, no, he didn't die in the explosion - just lost his legs. Thus becoming an amputee. Or as Christians would say "unforgivably sinful".