Six die because church says STOP HIV treatment

[Cinjin]

Well, at least it's good to know that the US doesn't keep all the religious crazies to our self.

[Creed of Heresy]

I can't believe the amount of you people sitting here saying these people deserved to die.

No, I'm serious, you lot sound just as fucking despicable as the pastors and bishops you all rail against and claim to be morally superior to. >:|

Have you guys taken a look around, lately? Have you noticed something about religions? Have you noticed their numbers swell not with of those of sound mind, but rather, by people who are VULNERABLE? Have you never noticed that people in a state of mental or emotional distress turn to religions because religions offer them false promises and false hope? Is it not true that people who lose loved ones, who receive sudden declaration of the shortening of their lives, of those who suffer all forms of emotional trauma turn to religion in desperation for hope, for something to cling to because they likely have nothing else? Is it not true that religions, all of them but ESPECIALLY christianity, prey [or pray?] upon this constantly? That its very design is meant to appeal to the inevitable emotional trauma that people will suffer, that it preys upon the fears and despair of people when they are laid their lowest? That living a life with AIDs, a disease that is definitive early, sickly death both physically and socially [physically later, but socially permanently during your now greatly-shortened lifespan], might be extremely weakening to someone's emotional health and that clearly these poor bastards became victims of a bunch of scam artists and liars?

And you people are saying THEY DESERVE THIS?

What the fucking fuck, people. What. The. Fuck. Is wrong with you guys. Sudden I feel as revolted towards to you just as much as I am by the evangelical predators who led these people to an even earlier death...BECAUSE YOUR MORAL COMPASS IS JUST AS FUCKED UP AS THEIRS IS.

I'm sure I'll get over that feeling eventually, but...just...

WOW.

[Aegrus]

I can't believe the amount of you people sitting here saying these people deserved to die.

No, I'm serious, you lot sound just as fucking despicable as the pastors and bishops you all rail against and claim to be morally superior to. >:|

Have you guys taken a look around, lately? Have you noticed something about religions? Have you noticed their numbers swell not with of those of sound mind, but rather, by people who are VULNERABLE? Have you never noticed that people in a state of mental or emotional distress turn to religions because religions offer them false promises and false hope? Is it not true that people who lose loved ones, who receive sudden declaration of the shortening of their lives, of those who suffer all forms of emotional trauma turn to religion in desperation for hope, for something to cling to because they likely have nothing else? Is it not true that religions, all of them but ESPECIALLY christianity, prey [or pray?] upon this constantly? That its very design is meant to appeal to the inevitable emotional trauma that people will suffer, that it preys upon the fears and despair of people when they are laid their lowest? That living a life with AIDs, a disease that is definitive early, sickly death both physically and socially [physically later, but socially permanently during your now greatly-shortened lifespan], might be extremely weakening to someone's emotional health and that clearly these poor bastards became victims of a bunch of scam artists and liars?

And you people are saying THEY DESERVE THIS?

What the fucking fuck, people. What. The. Fuck. Is wrong with you guys. Sudden I feel as revolted towards to you just as much as I am by the evangelical predators who led these people to an even earlier death...BECAUSE YOUR MORAL COMPASS IS JUST AS FUCKED UP AS THEIRS IS.

Yay! That's pretty close to what I've been saying.

---

How do you know they were believers.

Seriously? Would an atheist listen to church figures who told him or her to trust the healing powers of god?

[Creed of Heresy]

You're just plain sick Min, these people did not deserve what happened to them, they were probably desperate to be cured and fell into a churches desire to be noticed or some sort of thing as that. Not being privy to all of the matter I only can guess.

I have no sympathy for stupid jesus freaks who listen to preaching asswipes. I'm sure you know the type, G-C.

How do you know they were believers.

...Really?

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

I can't believe the amount of you people sitting here saying these people deserved to die.

No, I'm serious, you lot sound just as fucking despicable as the pastors and bishops you all rail against and claim to be morally superior to. >:|

Have you guys taken a look around, lately? Have you noticed something about religions? Have you noticed their numbers swell not with of those of sound mind, but rather, by people who are VULNERABLE? Have you never noticed that people in a state of mental or emotional distress turn to religions because religions offer them false promises and false hope? Is it not true that people who lose loved ones, who receive sudden declaration of the shortening of their lives, of those who suffer all forms of emotional trauma turn to religion in desperation for hope, for something to cling to because they likely have nothing else? Is it not true that religions, all of them but ESPECIALLY christianity, prey [or pray?] upon this constantly? That its very design is meant to appeal to the inevitable emotional trauma that people will suffer, that it preys upon the fears and despair of people when they are laid their lowest? That living a life with AIDs, a disease that is definitive early, sickly death both physically and socially [physically later, but socially permanently during your now greatly-shortened lifespan], might be extremely weakening to someone's emotional health and that clearly these poor bastards became victims of a bunch of scam artists and liars?

And you people are saying THEY DESERVE THIS?

What the fucking fuck, people. What. The. Fuck. Is wrong with you guys. Sudden I feel as revolted towards to you just as much as I am by the evangelical predators who led these people to an even earlier death...BECAUSE YOUR MORAL COMPASS IS JUST AS FUCKED UP AS THEIRS IS.

I'm sure I'll get over that feeling eventually, but...just...

WOW.

Perhaps you're correct. If someone shot themselves, I would assume it was because they had deep-seated emotional problems, not because they they deserved it. I rescind my earlier statement. (Btw, have you ever known a religious person to admit they were wrong? See, we're not as f****d up as them. )

[Creed of Heresy]

I can't believe the amount of you people sitting here saying these people deserved to die.

No, I'm serious, you lot sound just as fucking despicable as the pastors and bishops you all rail against and claim to be morally superior to. >:|

Have you guys taken a look around, lately? Have you noticed something about religions? Have you noticed their numbers swell not with of those of sound mind, but rather, by people who are VULNERABLE? Have you never noticed that people in a state of mental or emotional distress turn to religions because religions offer them false promises and false hope? Is it not true that people who lose loved ones, who receive sudden declaration of the shortening of their lives, of those who suffer all forms of emotional trauma turn to religion in desperation for hope, for something to cling to because they likely have nothing else? Is it not true that religions, all of them but ESPECIALLY christianity, prey [or pray?] upon this constantly? That its very design is meant to appeal to the inevitable emotional trauma that people will suffer, that it preys upon the fears and despair of people when they are laid their lowest? That living a life with AIDs, a disease that is definitive early, sickly death both physically and socially [physically later, but socially permanently during your now greatly-shortened lifespan], might be extremely weakening to someone's emotional health and that clearly these poor bastards became victims of a bunch of scam artists and liars?

And you people are saying THEY DESERVE THIS?

What the fucking fuck, people. What. The. Fuck. Is wrong with you guys. Sudden I feel as revolted towards to you just as much as I am by the evangelical predators who led these people to an even earlier death...BECAUSE YOUR MORAL COMPASS IS JUST AS FUCKED UP AS THEIRS IS.

I'm sure I'll get over that feeling eventually, but...just...

WOW.

Perhaps you're correct. If someone shot themselves, I would assume it was because they had deep-seated emotional problems, not because they they deserved it. I rescind my earlier statement. (Btw, have you ever known a religious person to admit they were wrong? See, we're not as f****d up as them. )

Yes. Yes I have. I'm one of them. That's largely why I'm an atheist these days. Most of the people on this site, if not all of them, were religious at one point, in one way or another. Very few people here were raised as atheists. We BECOME that, for the most part, because we realize, we were wrong in our beliefs, and we change. If someone shoots themselves, yeah, they're not going to do it because they were sitting there going "you know what I really deserve? A bullet to the head!" XD If that sort of thing actually happened, there'd a LOT less morally bankrupt individuals in the world...and there CERTAINLY wouldn't be no fucking Joseph Kony or George Bush or Hitler...although, Hitler DID kill himself but...heh, that was because he was facing the Russians [who were piiiiiisssssed at him].

Also I apologize for being so...I dunno, outraged, I suppose, with my statement, but...we atheists are quick to dismiss religious individuals killing themselves as "social Darwinism" [a concept that has been disproven many many MANY times over not just by individual behavior but also by armies of psychologists, paleontologists, geneticists, and neurologists], as opposed to the individuals being victims of the monolithic religions that seduced them with their lies and false promises. We must always remember; believers are just atheists waiting for the rational-minded to guide them down the path of reason and self-sufficience.

Also; props for flexibility in sentiment.

[KichigaiNeko]

---

I can't believe the amount of you people sitting here saying these people deserved to die.

No, I'm serious, you lot sound just as fucking despicable as the pastors and bishops you all rail against and claim to be morally superior to. >:|

Have you guys taken a look around, lately? Have you noticed something about religions? Have you noticed their numbers swell not with of those of sound mind, but rather, by people who are VULNERABLE? Have you never noticed that people in a state of mental or emotional distress turn to religions because religions offer them false promises and false hope? Is it not true that people who lose loved ones, who receive sudden declaration of the shortening of their lives, of those who suffer all forms of emotional trauma turn to religion in desperation for hope, for something to cling to because they likely have nothing else? Is it not true that religions, all of them but ESPECIALLY christianity, prey [or pray?] upon this constantly? That its very design is meant to appeal to the inevitable emotional trauma that people will suffer, that it preys upon the fears and despair of people when they are laid their lowest? That living a life with AIDs, a disease that is definitive early, sickly death both physically and socially [physically later, but socially permanently during your now greatly-shortened lifespan], might be extremely weakening to someone's emotional health and that clearly these poor bastards became victims of a bunch of scam artists and liars?

And you people are saying THEY DESERVE THIS?

What the fucking fuck, people. What. The. Fuck. Is wrong with you guys. Sudden I feel as revolted towards to you just as much as I am by the evangelical predators who led these people to an even earlier death...BECAUSE YOUR MORAL COMPASS IS JUST AS FUCKED UP AS THEIRS IS.

I'm sure I'll get over that feeling eventually, but...just...

WOW.

---

You DO know that this is exactly what gets our collective goat? That the "church" <insert religious affiliation here> TOTALLY relies on the vulnerable, illiterate and insecure to fill it's ranks? You think that THIS is honourable??

It is this VERY fact that is despicable and religion itself is to blame for these deaths coupled with the complicity of the participants who would ignore their doctors advice and rather rely on a no nothing pastor/ priest instead.

[Creed of Heresy]

---

I can't believe the amount of you people sitting here saying these people deserved to die.

No, I'm serious, you lot sound just as fucking despicable as the pastors and bishops you all rail against and claim to be morally superior to. >:|

Have you guys taken a look around, lately? Have you noticed something about religions? Have you noticed their numbers swell not with of those of sound mind, but rather, by people who are VULNERABLE? Have you never noticed that people in a state of mental or emotional distress turn to religions because religions offer them false promises and false hope? Is it not true that people who lose loved ones, who receive sudden declaration of the shortening of their lives, of those who suffer all forms of emotional trauma turn to religion in desperation for hope, for something to cling to because they likely have nothing else? Is it not true that religions, all of them but ESPECIALLY christianity, prey [or pray?] upon this constantly? That its very design is meant to appeal to the inevitable emotional trauma that people will suffer, that it preys upon the fears and despair of people when they are laid their lowest? That living a life with AIDs, a disease that is definitive early, sickly death both physically and socially [physically later, but socially permanently during your now greatly-shortened lifespan], might be extremely weakening to someone's emotional health and that clearly these poor bastards became victims of a bunch of scam artists and liars?

And you people are saying THEY DESERVE THIS?

What the fucking fuck, people. What. The. Fuck. Is wrong with you guys. Sudden I feel as revolted towards to you just as much as I am by the evangelical predators who led these people to an even earlier death...BECAUSE YOUR MORAL COMPASS IS JUST AS FUCKED UP AS THEIRS IS.

I'm sure I'll get over that feeling eventually, but...just...

WOW.

---

You DO know that this is exactly what gets our collective goat? That the "church" <insert religious affiliation here> TOTALLY relies on the vulnerable, illiterate and insecure to fill it's ranks? You think that THIS is honourable??

It is this VERY fact that is despicable and religion itself is to blame for these deaths coupled with the complicity of the participants who would ignore their doctors advice and rather rely on a no nothing pastor/ priest instead.

Nonono, see, that's what I'm driving FOR, not AGAINST. My outrage is directed at people saying these individuals deserved to die; they DIDN'T. Their only crime was allowing themselves to be suckered by the religious institutions. NOT a crime worthy of the death penalty by ANY means, even self-inflicted. ESPECIALLY not given the circumstances. The problem with AIDs is that even the BEST scenarios modern medicine can provide are less than optimistic; at the BEST, you can expect to live another ten, fifteen years or so. Someone comes along to you in this emotionally weakened state and promises a CURE, are you going to start thinking rationally about this? Chances are: No. The mere THOUGHT that there is a cure from you being not only damned to a short existence but ALSO from being a social pariah [let's face it, AIDS patients DO get treated as social pariahs even in modern society] would be too tempting to pass up. As an individual who has seen it all, endured it all, and SURVIVED it all, I might not be so susceptible to such emotional predation; but is everyone else like me? Is everyone else as resilient, weathered from constant abuse? Fuck no, and I understand that. We cannot put the supposition of our OWN assumed reactions, especially from when we have not been in such a position, on the emotionally-driven conclusions that these individuals reached. We must realize the environmental, physical, psychological, and in this case, virological circumstances they have been subjected to, and to simply brush them off with as cold a statement as "Oh well, six less dumbasses in the world" when these people were suffering as victims not just from this torturous disease but also from the predations of a sadistic myth-cult like christianity, is approaching the same level of moral bankruptcy as these assclown christians are at.

[KichigaiNeko]

I think that was what I was alluding to Creed.

At times like this a saying "My Goddess is much kinder to the plight of human suffering" come to mind. And Yes one does get rather "caught up" emotionally in the horror of it all. Still getting over that stoning and it was a fucking movie about a true story, another statement "you have to learn to protect your heart" comes to mind and I am thinking that this is what is predominant here. We cannot help these persons who have taken the "glory road to jeebus" ...what we CAN do is point out accusingly to the uncaring and callous use of religion that KILLED these vulnerable people whilst claiming to "CARE" for the disenfranchised. Hypocrisy at it's best is what religion is and always has been.

[Creed of Heresy]

I think that was what I was alluding to Creed.

At times like this a saying "My Goddess is much kinder to the plight of human suffering" come to mind. And Yes one does get rather "caught up" emotionally in the horror of it all. Still getting over that stoning and it was a fucking movie about a true story, another statement "you have to learn to protect your heart" comes to mind and I am thinking that this is what is predominant here. We cannot help these persons who have taken the "glory road to jeebus" ...what we CAN do is point out accusingly to the uncaring and callous use of religion that KILLED these vulnerable people whilst claiming to "CARE" for the disenfranchised. Hypocrisy at it's best is what religion is and always has been.

Fuckin' right. There ARE gonna be...CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS coughcoughGodsChildcough who'll sit there and defend their religion's moral hypocrisy to the last breath. Irredeemable individuals, who understand the bigotry, sexism, tyranny, repression, rape, slavery, and hate their religion condones and yet defend it...the most morally corrupt individuals who I fail to reconcile as human beings. We call these individuals fundamentalists and they wear the title like a badge of honor. Not unlike how nazi supporters prior and during WWII wore swastikas like a badge of honor. A fitting analogy, by the way, especially given christianity's history with the third reich [IE: Condoning it and only retracting support for it because of the defeat of the Third Reich at the hands of the Allies and the "godless Commie" Russians].

But the rest, the weak? I pity them immensely for being preyed upon by these monolithic, cynical, hypocritical institutions who smile with one face, while with the other they gaze hungrily into the TV, watching the faces of those being stricken by tragedy while thinking gleefully to themselves "more prospective sheep for the flock!"