Why there are so many denominations

[Drich]

People disagree with People. You're not allowed to disagree with God.

Which if you take the time to look/study for the believer it is next to impossiable to disagree with God. There are little to no sticking points save one. Do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

So you interpret God a little different and bingo and version 200.34 is born.

What i am doing is not new it is a method of worship that has it roots in the mid to late 1800's

Denominations is the reflection of Human intentions against what is allegedly absolute.

I identify this well defined effort with one word. "Religion."

I actually respect Drich to a certain extent in that he seems to more or less dismiss all denominations as they have their own agendas which are not always "scripturally biblical" but have good intentions all the same. He just needs to realize that scripturally biblical is no different to any other interpretation, and equally dismissively.

The question was asked in another thread which Christian sect was the correct one. I said none, this includes my own. No matter what we believe or how we believe it our efforts ultimately fall short. As with any other religious effort my own effort will still need the same type of atonement as all of the rest do.

What separates biblically based Christianity from the rest? Biblically based answers to questions that have plagued the others since their inceptions. A clear picture and understanding of God, and how He relates and interacts with us. With this information one can build a much stronger relationship/faith than one who builds his faith on the shifting sands of a religious effort designed to support itself and the leadership who maintain it.

Outside of that my faith is just as dependent as any other member of the Church on the atonement of Christ.

[The Grand Nudger]

Trouble is, you don't seem to have a "clear picture", or at least you are incapable of communicating it if you do.

Plagues that trouble other denominations, like Epicuras? You're suffering under that one as well.

Hot air Drich, hot air.

[Drich]

And where do all of these churches claim to be pulling their bullshit doctrines? Same place you pull yours. How do they claim to have achieved this? Same way you do.

No. Some claim Divine revelation as they are the spiritual descendants of the Apostles. Some claim to be Prophets and speak with God directly apart from what scripture says. Others form a principle like the Omni aspects of God, then take scraps of verses from all over the bible and compile then in a certain order to create a new doctrine.

I will use a whole paragraph, Chapter or even book to establish a principle. Every thing taken in it proper context. Or at least that is the ultimate goal.

Let me help you out here. Which translation of the bible is your current favorite?

It depends on who I am speaking to and what level of understanding they have in conjunction to the nature of the question being asked. I have been known to quote from the King James the New King James the NIV and the American standard. I myself for my own study use the NKJV coupled with a Strong's Lexicon and concordance, so I get to question and research the Original Greek and come to my own conclusions.

You do realize that these books aren't printed in a vacuum right? Unless you have invented your own denomination of christianity (3 is a crowd but 30k is a clusterfuck btw) you are following one of the others, you simply avoid their churches. Good for you, so do I. It's already been mentioned to you that this whole "biblical christianity" bit is little more than pretense, has it not? Maybe you should address that before you get too smug about your particular denomination's claims to the truth against all of those heretics out there.

I did in my post to faith no more.

Speaking of bullshit that has been put into the mouth of your mythical god-man. Seems to me that quite a few gather at the catholic church. So I guess that means that he is among them?

Among them most likely Yes. Supports, under girds, strengthens them... Look at all of the unanswered questions that their doctrines create and you tell me.

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[quote='Rhythm' pid='274874' dateline='1334843253']
Trouble is, you don't seem to have a "clear picture", or at least you are incapable of communicating it if you do.

Plagues that trouble other denominations, like Epicuras? You're suffering under that one as well.

Hot air Drich, hot air.

My picture is clear, the problem is it took me 20+ years to get it. Why because I was working with the same denominational misconceptions most of you are dealing with. So i had to reboot and start all over. I had to learn "to question all things and hold on to what is good." This meant not only question the questionable, but to also question the foundational. What i found was that their are some serious cracks in the popularly understood version of Christianity.

So the question becomes how can one take 20 years of study and condense it down to a few posts? The only way i know to do this is start with definitions and the re-explanation of core understandings. The problem is that most of you want to dismiss the basics because you feel you have a firm grasp of christianity already. the problem is that Biblically based Christianity and popular christianity is not the same thing.

If you can show me how to communicate this fact and get people to accept it I am all ears.

[Mister Agenda]

Representing biblical Christianity is a lot like representing the US tax code. Good luck with that.

One of the things that the refugee children I tutor found strange about America was all the churches. Explaining that in a way they could understand, being from a Muslim country, was a bit of a challenge.

One of my formative experiences was that my parents belonged to different Pentecostal deonominations that agreed except on a few doctrines about baptism and the trinity. My mom mellowed over the years, but I think my dad still thinks she went to hell. I suppose from the Catholic point of view (I had a Catholic step-mother, although my current one is United Pentecostal), once you start splitting, you just can't stop.

[The Grand Nudger]

Actually, "we" (I can only speak for myself, but I'll run with the "you guys" card since you invoked it) dismiss your "explanations" specifically, and I don't think anyone has ever dismissed a single one of your "explanations" without describing exactly why they have done so. As I said, you either do not have a clear picture, or you are incapable of communicating it. It's very easy to blame others for our own shortcomings, but at some point we must "man up" and accept that the only common denominator in all of our failures is ourselves. Wouldn't you agree?

It is not my responsibility (or anyone else's) to provide you with a means or method to make a compelling case for your own beliefs. You must handle that yourself.

I do not believe. This means that I assign no value whatsoever to your explanations (insomuch as they are founded upon belief), or the time you spent in getting them (because the span of time is completely irrelevant with regards to whether or not you or I believe). It's entirely possible that I have heard your explanations before, is it not? You should probably have understood all of this before your first post, and since you choose to continue attempting to "explain" things, there's no sense in complaining about whether or not people believe you, when speaking about something they don't believe in. To take this even further, it isn't so hard to explain something you understand very well in a succint and concise way. I do it day in and day out with my clients. I've spent much more time learning my trade than they have, somehow I am capable of explaining what it is I do (and how they can do it) in a shorter span of time than you have been here, and probably in about as much time as it takes you to write a medium sized post. I suspect that you do not understand the subject as well as you have imagined. You may be familiar with your talking points, but you seem incapable of elaborating upon those points in the face of even minor skepticism or inquiry. Again, this is your own shortcoming, and it gets incredibly tiresome to see you repeatedly resorting to blaming others when you fail to make your own case. Asking others to show you how to make your own case. Complaining that you have made your own case and that no one but you can see it. It doesn't give you any credibility as an authority, and it definitely doesn't establish you as a person worth talking to about any issue. Why not just cut to the chase, invoke prophecies of hard hearts and closed eyes? It's all pretense.

[Thor]

Which if you take the time to look/study for the believer it is next to impossiable to disagree with God.

I would disagree with anyone who would tell me it is perfectly okay to keep slaves.

There are little to no sticking points save one. Do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Blasphemy is a victimless crime.

[Minimalist]

Fuck the holy spirit...and all of your other hallucinations.

[Drich]

Representing biblical Christianity is a lot like representing the US tax code. Good luck with that.

One of the things that the refugee children I tutor found strange about America was all the churches. Explaining that in a way they could understand, being from a Muslim country, was a bit of a challenge.

One of my formative experiences was that my parents belonged to different Pentecostal deonominations that agreed except on a few doctrines about baptism and the trinity. My mom mellowed over the years, but I think my dad still thinks she went to hell. I suppose from the Catholic point of view (I had a Catholic step-mother, although my current one is United Pentecostal), once you start splitting, you just can't stop.

This is true, but as mentioned splitting is not always a bad thing for it can allow us a greater opportunity to express the type of love required.

On the other hand it can be used to control and oppress as well. It truly depends on the heart of the believer.

[The Grand Nudger]

Everything about any god "depends on the heart of the believer", because that's the only part of the whole sad enterprise that's being leveraged. God is whatever a believer has in their hearts, god likes or dislikes whatever a believer likes or dislikes in their hearts. Scriptures are true or untrue based on the whims of their hearts. Doctrine is holy or false on the metrics of their hearts desires. Gods advice is received and given through their hearts.

There's a whole hell of alot human going on here, but not a whole hell of a lot of god Drich.

Let's do a little thought experiment here.

-Does your god "speak to your heart"? Obviously I mean this in the metaphorical, and not literal sense.
-Does your heart desire anything that your god dislikes?
-Does your heart shrink away from anything that your god desires?
-Do you base your understanding of scripture on evidence, or on the compulsion of your heart? (again, metaphorical)
-Does your heart tell you what scriptures are incorrectly translated or downright bullshit?
-Is your heart completely behind what you believe to be "true doctrine"
-Does anyone else offer a doctrine that speaks to your heart, despite it's being "false"?
-Does god present himself to you, does he speak into your ears, appear before your eyes, or compel you in your heart?
-Has your heart (or any part of you) ever received a "message from god" that it simply could not accept?

[Drich]

Actually, "we" (I can only speak for myself, but I'll run with the "you guys" card since you invoked it) dismiss your "explanations" specifically, and I don't think anyone has ever dismissed a single one of your "explanations" without describing exactly why they have done so.

And i have summarized those "done so's" by saying you all simply feel you have a stronger sense of Christianity than someone who has devoted their lives to it. When basic concepts can not be agreed upon, then the conversation comes to an end. Because it is pointless to continue unless both people are willing to agree on a single starting point.

As I said, you either do not have a clear picture, or you are incapable of communicating it.

If any of you wish to see what I see, all you have to do is simply follow where I lead. Again if the conversation stops at the basics, then the rest will not be understood from a biblical perspective. For instance with the new account of genesis I posted I put everything out up front and I had 20+ pages of going over what you all thought was the typical origins argument. It took on average 4 to 6 posts for me to get you guys past the idea of the traditional church argument or what you thought i was arguing. (For Each person who piped up and wanted to be heard.) The same thing happened with the Noah's Ark thread, and the whole bit about the Omni aspects of God. I make a statement like the omni aspects of God are not a biblical terms. and I am still getting arguments that show me that some of your peers do not understand that basic precept, for the argue against the omni aspects as well.

Is it my fault that alot of you do not read what is written and simply look for key words and phrases to know which tired argument to drag out? Is it my fault that some of you have created a hate for God and religion around what you think you know? Is it my fault you want to hold on to what you believe to be true about chrstianity, rather than take an honest look at it? If any of this is true for any of you then know i am not interested in trying to pry away what you believe.

It's very easy to blame others for our own shortcomings, but at some point we must "man up" and accept that the only common denominator in all of our failures is ourselves. Wouldn't you agree?

Absolutely at the end of my last post to you I admitted this and asked for your help or the help of anyone else who could show me how to communicate past the general outline that I use.

That said the statement you just made is a double edged sword, in that my short comings are not the only ones affecting these conversations. It takes two to tango. In this instance it takes someone with the message and someone willing to receive it. Both parties have to be willing for the transfer of information to take place. Is it not time to "man up" and accept your participation or lack there of, as well?

It is not my responsibility (or anyone else's) to provide you with a means or method to make a compelling case for your own beliefs. You must handle that yourself.

That's where you are wrong. It is not my job to compel anyone beyond what it is they are seeking for themselves. Perhaps that is why some of you are where you are. God nor those who follow the examples He has left for us, push or compel people beyond their own desire to know. I know this is not the historical position of the church, but it is the biblical approach of spreading the good news.

I do not believe.

I have not asked you to. I do not call you out by name nor will you ever find me knocking at your door wanting to push my religion on to you. You respond because something in side you will not remain at peace if you were to remain silent.

This means that I assign no value whatsoever to your explanations (insomuch as they are founded upon belief), or the time you spent in getting them (because the span of time is completely irrelevant with regards to whether or not you or I believe). It's entirely possible that I have heard your explanations before, is it not?

It is.

You should probably have understood all of this before your first post, and since you choose to continue attempting to "explain" things, there's no sense in complaining about whether or not people believe you, when speaking about something they don't believe in. To take this even further, it isn't so hard to explain something you understand very well in a succinct and concise way.

I am a refrigeration engineer by trade, and I am also a cooperate trainer/instructor for the brand of refrigeration we sell. now unless you have a great desire and are willing to sit through hours of terms and definitions and general principles there is absolutely no way, you would understand how any of my specific brand of refrigeration works. Even if you have a working knowledge of basic refrigeration or were completely certified in HVAC.(Matter of fact those guys are the worst to train because they 'think' they know what is going on when they do not. Kinda like what is happening here.)

I have been doing this about as long as i have been doing the God thing and in both cases have trained and attempted to train many people. One universal truth is not one person has ever picked up everything being taught unless he was driven to do so. That is another reason why I am not here to compel beyond what it is you seek for yourself. I have been in front of enough people to know it is next to impossible force interest when there isn't any.

I do it day in and day out with my clients. I've spent much more time learning my trade than they have, somehow I am capable of explaining what it is I do (and how they can do it) in a shorter span of time than you have been here, and probably in about as much time as it takes you to write a medium sized post.

There is an element you have over looked that i have made abundantly clear. The people we train must have a Want and desire to be trained. if someone is a "client" then they have in some way paid you to be there. If that is the case then their is a motivation to learn is their not? Their motivation does not make you a great teacher, like wise their lack of it does not make you a bad one either. Your job is to provide information to those who seek it. If you were to take your skill set before a class of high schoolers just after the final bell has rung on a Friday of a long weekend, how many do you thin would stay of their own free will to hear all that you have to say? Now if everyone left does that make you a bad teacher? Or are you simply bring a message that most if any want to hear?

I suspect that you do not understand the subject as well as you have imagined. You may be familiar with your talking points, but you seem incapable of elaborating upon those points in the face of even minor skepticism or inquiry. Again, this is your own shortcoming, and it gets incredibly tiresome to see you repeatedly resorting to blaming others when you fail to make your own case. Asking others to show you how to make your own case. Complaining that you have made your own case and that no one but you can see it. It doesn't give you any credibility as an authority, and it definitely doesn't establish you as a person worth talking to about any issue. Why not just cut to the chase, invoke prophecies of hard hearts and closed eyes? It's all pretense.

In my line of work diagnostics is a great portion of what we are asked to do. (To see why something does not work.) I have only ever outlined what I see as the root cause of this basic failure to communicate here. It's like if your cooler will not get below 45 *F and I look at it and tell you your compressor is bad. Does not make less true just because you do not want to hear what it is I have to say or how i said it?

My diagnosis here:
I have found in order for those seeking (not those looking to be forced or compelled into Christianity) to have a fighting chance of understanding biblically based Christianity they must have a solid foundation of terms, concepts and meanings, based in the biblical interpretation of whatever is being discussed. Rather than the pop Christian understanding of the term/concept that has been forced on most of you. Giving you these terms/meanings is my first objective. So when we discuss and build on concepts and terms like Love, Sin, Evil, or Free Will everyone is on the same page. For we can not work together to build these greater meanings and ultimately a greater understanding if everyone is working from a different set of base definitions.

Bottom line is if you are not willing to challenge your personal understanding of Christianity beyond what it is you think you know, then accept in you heart of hearts the message i bring is simply not meant for you.

I know biblically based Christianity is not for everyone and that is OK. However if you are looking to understand God as He presents Himself in the Bible then perhaps (even if you do not completely agree) simply accept the terms being offered long enough to see the greater point being made. (Post 26 is another good example of a misuse or categorization of biblical terms, and why it is so importantto have a agreed upon starting point in definations.)

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Fuck the holy spirit...and all of your other hallucinations.

I know your trying but this is not what an example of Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is all about. Your going to have to read your bible to find out what that is yourself.