The secret of the Illuminati and why they are identifiable yet unstoppable.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Basbugh Atatürk speaks, 10.10.1935, to Doctor Mim Kemal Öke:

Mason cemiyetinin faaliyetini inkılaplarımıza muarız gördüğüm için kapatılmasını elzem gördüm. Bu dakikadan itibaren bu cemiyeti ölmüş biliriz. Ve bir daha diriltmeğe teşebbüs etmeyiniz.

Translation:

As I have seen the mason society to be a liability to our revolutions, I have seen it fit that these lodges be closed. We know this society as to be dead from this minute on. And I tell you this, do not try to resurrect it again.

These are the facts, documented facts. The rest rather seem to sound like conspiracy theories. But our dear leader did close down their lodges, obviously because he knew that their roots were somewhere on foreign lands. He had experience with them during his time in the Harbiye(military school), and many of them were part of the Young Turks who have brought us into WWI. Even Sultan Abdulhamid II Khan allowed these lodges to exist on the assurance that they would stay away from politics, but obviously they did not.

[Kayenneh]

Well, I do not want to hear their secrets, whatever they are.

Should you be accusing them then? If you don't know the inner working of the society, how can you judge them?

However, this still does not change the fact that freemasons are a secretive society of influential and powerful people who support eachother first, before supporting anything or anyone else.

Well, the little I've acquainted myself with the order, I can't say that their philosophies seem to correlate with your idea at all. Do you have an example or two to illustrate just how they put themselves before anyone else? And just how do they differ from anyone rich and influential, who isn't a Freemason?

[kılıç_mehmet]

I can't vouch for the Freemasons, I only know one guy who is one, and he at least seems to be very decent. But seeing that I am myself a member of a closed society, I can say that people's imaginations can twist what it actually is about.

It's just another fraternal organisation, I would guess. My grandfather was a freemason; he entered WWII at 18-years-old in hopes to be a medic and save lives, and he was a school teacher and principal. The most exciting thing the man did in everyday life was go fishing - no evil plots . I wouldn't have considered him a threat. His sister was part of The Order of the Eastern Star as well. Neither were really religious, I'd say probably Agnostic faith-wise and if anything else at all, just social tradition. I agree with your observation/statement, Kayenneh. I think the general suspicions are over-rated.

Friend, I'm also a part of a nationalist fraternal organisation. Our events and our policies, ideologies are all in the open. Your grandfather was in no real place to actually go and topple leaders. But overall, what purpose do the masons really serve? What is their goal? Our goals are clear, crystal clear, and we're trying to explain these goals to the people. Masons on the other hand...Well, fraternity based on what?
The only thing I can really think of is loyalty to monetary needs, as it seems that masons are not a religious order either, what really is there?
Besides, my suspicions are not baseless. The lodges in our country were closed by a man who had past experience with them.

Gee, who else do you know that falls into this category?

If you had read my statement, you'd see that this is an international organisation. If they had been a regional organisation, I'd certainly not give a flying damn about it. But a Turkish freemason and American freemason are helping eachother in this matter. Like for example, the American freemason has interests in this country which are in contrast to our own national interests. The Turkish freemason is obliged to help this one, as he'd require his help if the same would be the case for him in America.
See?

---

Should you be accusing them then? If you don't know the inner working of the society, how can you judge them?

By looking into their outer works. Certainly, their philosophy is of no concern to me. I do not condemn the freemasons because of certain theories that link them to knights templar, or that they worship baphomet, and swear loyalty to the logde while being pierced on the chest or whatever.
What is really important here is how they work on the outside.

Well, the little I've acquainted myself with the order, I can't say that their philosophies seem to correlate with your idea at all. Do you have an example or two to illustrate just how they put themselves before anyone else? And just how do they differ from anyone rich and influential, who isn't a Freemason?

As I said, their philosophies are rather irrelevant here. The only thing that matters is that they are an international organisation which support eachother when it comes to their own personal, and lodge related interests.
They know no nations, boundaries, religions or people. This is what is so disturbing for me. Besides, they seem to be operating within a hierarchy, too.
Examples?
Well, I could give a few examples from our own history,if you wish.

[Faith No More]

If you had read my statement, you'd see that this is an international organisation. If they had been a regional organisation, I'd certainly not give a flying damn about it. But a Turkish freemason and American freemason are helping eachother in this matter. Like for example, the American freemason has interests in this country which are in contrast to our own national interests. The Turkish freemason is obliged to help this one, as he'd require his help if the same would be the case for him in America.

Just pointing out the irony of you condemning a group for only having self-serving interests.

[Kayenneh]

They know no nations, boundaries, religions or people. This is what is so disturbing for me. Besides, they seem to be operating within a hierarchy, too.

Aha, so it is this what bugs you. Well, I've gotten the picture that you're quite the nationalist (please excuse me, if I'm wrong) and I can see how you would feel that it's unsettling that to someone think nationalism, religions or boundaries don't matter. But try to think of it this way: all people are humans. Should I care more for my fellow countrymen and women just because we were born geographically on the same spot, than say Australians? Is looking past what set us apart really that horrifying?
And honestly, you can't pin this one on hierarchy, all societies function this way, secret or not.

Examples?
Well, I could give a few examples from our own history,if you wish.

Yes please, if I am wrong, I would like to be thoroughly proven so.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Aha, so it is this what bugs you. Well, I've gotten the picture that you're quite the nationalist (please excuse me, if I'm wrong) and I can see how you would feel that it's unsettling that to someone think nationalism, religions or boundaries don't matter. But try to think of it this way: all people are humans. Should I care more for my fellow countrymen and women just because we were born geographically on the same spot, than say Australians? Is looking past what set us apart really that horrifying?
And honestly, you can't pin this one on hierarchy, all societies function this way, secret or not.

I am, I am also a member of a nationalist student association, and we had our own association and magazine before both were closed down.
All peoples are humans, friend. However, should you not care for your fellow countrymen and countrywomen because a mason of a higher degree tells you that he needs you to support a party financially that holds many of their members, and might not be the best choice for the country, while another party, practically, a better choice, holds no or minimal masonic connections receives no such support from you?
Or lets say you and another country went to war with eachother. If masonic interests require you to support the opposing country, if not openly, but secretively, by supplying them with intel, would you renounce your masonic association, and thereby risk things that you have obtained through your association with worldwide masonry?

By the way, where does the freemasons, a worldwide organisation, get their funds from?
We have published our own magazine with the money we payed out of our own pockets, and were allowed to remain in a small room to plan and conduct our activities by the school campus. Everything else was on our part, and we offered no benefits to our members other than the satisfaction of doing something for their own people.

Yes please, if I am wrong, I would like to be thoroughly proven so.

I'm doing my research in the time being, I know what things are all about, but I want to come here with at least some documents.

[Kayenneh]

However, should you not care for your fellow countrymen and countrywomen because a mason of a higher degree tells you that he needs you to support a party financially that holds many of their members, and might not be the best choice for the country, while another party, practically, a better choice, holds no or minimal masonic connections receives no such support from you?

Here I would really want to see some proof, that someone would be forced to make such a choice.

Or lets say you and another country went to war with eachother. If masonic interests require you to support the opposing country, if not openly, but secretively, by supplying them with intel, would you renounce your masonic association, and thereby risk things that you have obtained through your association with worldwide masonry?

That depends on the situation. Again, have there been such instances, that someone have been forced to make that choice?

By the way, where does the freemasons, a worldwide organisation, get their funds from?

Membership fees, donations, investments, wills and revenue, if I were to make a guess

I'm doing my research in the time being, I know what things are all about, but I want to come here with at least some documents.

Thank you, I'll be waiting.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Here I would really want to see some proof, that someone would be forced to make such a choice.

It's not even a hypothetical choice. It's a choice of profit. I believe that the most indifferent and money grubbing of all people would be able to rise up enough in the ranks of international masonry to contribute something of value to the interests of masons, while others generally fulfill the roles of middle men.
They wouldn't be forced to make such a choice, they'd make this choice knowingly and willingly.
This is why they are dangerous.

Membership fees, donations, investments, wills and revenue, if I were to make a guess

If there is a membership fee, there surely must be membership benefits.
I wonder what those are.
Besides, investments...Belong to the masonic organisation as a whole, I guess. Wills..Well I'm not sure who would leave their entire posessions to the masonic order, but I could say that this organisation resembles verily the various islamic sects that operate in Turkey, most of whom, were also closed by our founding fathers, many of those who had ancestors who were members of these sects, including famous ones such as the Mawlawi, origin of whirling dervishes.
Those too once had a lots money under their disposal before their closure and and seizing of their assets. The masonic order also presented itself as a religious order in Turkey, and it's still known as a religious order of another religion of no one is really sure what they believe in.

That depends on the situation. Again, have there been such instances, that someone have been forced to make that choice?

Well, yes, as far as I'm concerned, especially in my own country.
Other than that, I'm speaking of a hypothetical, extreme circumstances.
But it doesn't have to be a state of war to make such a choice. If masons would not favor their members over their individual national ties, what purpose would their fraternity serve anyways?

[The Grand Nudger]

"International Masonry" sounds a whole hell of alot like "International Jewry"....lulz. Maybe your folks did read the Protocols and mistranslated the subject matter?

Say it with me...social club.

[kılıç_mehmet]

"International Masonry" sounds a whole hell of alot like "International Jewry"....lulz. Maybe your folks did read the Protocols and mistranslated the subject matter?

Say it with me...social club.

What exactly bothers you when I use the term "international" for the masons?
If the masons claim that they are "regional" in all matters that concern their fraternity, they should come to light and share this with us.
But I know for sure from the time when our Basbugh Atatürk spoke to the masons who objected to the closure of their lodges in Turkey, their spokesman claimed that their head resided in Venice, and their lodge was the lodge that the lodges in Turkey were subject to. I don't know what else to say about this. It seems pretty much "international" to me.
After learning this, Atatürk was furious, and told them to close their lodges by morning, else, he'd give them over to a martial court and have them hanged the next day, and God knows he had the power to do so, without having them brought before a court.