God does not love you...

[NoMoreFaith]

I've never really had a problem with the concept of God's conditional love, its always been implied by the "love me or else" style.

As per usual, God is given very human attributes rather than divine, especially within the concepts of jealously, covetousness and conditional affection.
In human terms this would be viewed as an abusive relationship.

I wish for you to suffer, but its for your own good, and you better love me, or I'll make you suffer more.

This is further compounded by the error of "false" idols, in there is the distinct declaration, that you should defy your parents in contradiction to the declarations of Ephesians 6:1 (Obey your parents).
If your parents are Sikh, and you are brought up that way, then is it reasonable to expect the child to defy the parent and accept christianity.

What you paint a picture of, is a God as a parent, allowing suffering in order to prepare his children for eternity.
He does this, by issuing obfuscated meanings, absenteeism and declarations of wrath.

I'm not sure what you're out to prove, other than his incompetence.

I'm sure you will say "who are we to judge him", but this is at odds with the idea of a parent-god.
If you know a child, whom is ignored by his parents, given rules to follow in a language the child can't read, and punished if he fails to adher to them.. you'd call social services.

[Drich]

If he loved his son he wouldn't have allowed him to be nailed to a fucking cross.

Again the Love being expressed by God is not what you seem to understand love to be.

If we don't accept the disturbing offer of sacrificing an innocent for our "crimes" then his wrath falls upon us? Really?

Yes it does. Maybe you should have asked why instead.

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Clearly, reality disagrees. Christians (those who apparently meet the criteria) suffer and die at pretty much the same rate as the rest of the world.

You misunderstand. Accepting God's love has nothing to do with living an easy life. It simply means you have your sins forgiven, and you will be placed on track with a relationship with God. For some this means a good life but for most this means trials and hardship. It all depends on your heart and what you need to endure to truly seek God.

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And this is why I don't think that the bible is trustworthy, because it always seems to come down to "well, the translation COULD be...".

If you want to know for yourself then find a lexicon/concordance like blueletterbible.com It breaks down each word in the original Greek/Hebrew and defines the word.

If god had been a smart one, why not let it be written in a way that can't be interpreted?

It was.

What you seem to misunderstand is that when translating from one language to another some meaning is lost in the act of translation. For not all languages have the same understanding of words like "Love" for instances. The Greeks saw fit to divide the word into 4 groups while in the English we have one generic word for each of the 4 concepts of the Greek words. Why? Because we believe love to be unconditional in it's purest form. This is a cultural distinctive that seems to only resonates in modern western cultures.

Most bibles is a direct translation of the Greek meaning it is the closest thing we have to the Greek text only allowing changes for syntax and grammar. If you want a deeper meaning or "commentary' then you will have to do your own research.

[Napoléon]

"God does not love you"

Great news! Nor do I love him!

So bring it on bitch. I'm awaiting my 'punishment'. What's that? Can't hear you? In fact I can't hear anything. You there god? .... god?

Damnit.

Lemme just say. If god WAS real, I'd be joining the devil anyway. He seems like a chap who can at least have a laugh.

[Drich]

Goes against what your bible teaches mate:

Do you not understand the OP? I am saying God loves, just not unconditionally as most of you think. I have pointed out that the Love of God "Agape" Is very conditional. Your verses prove that.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
This is the condition of God's love is it not? God loved the world so much that He did this________ Next comes the condition: That who so ever believes in Him.... This condition make God's love conditional. which supports "my teaching."

Lets look at 1 John 2 in it's proper context and not just one line:
2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

7 Brethren,[a] I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.[b] 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

It seems to me that John is also showing us the conditions of our love for God/God's love for us, is dependent on how we live our lives.

The primary message being that yes God offers love to the whole world but under certain conditions and not this understanding of unconditional love most of you have demanded of God.

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I'm not sure what you're out to prove,

That there is a fatal flaw in the general understanding of the Love God offers.

I'm sure you will say "who are we to judge him", but this is at odds with the idea of a parent-god.
If you know a child, whom is ignored by his parents, given rules to follow in a language the child can't read, and punished if he fails to adhere to them.. You'd call social services.

I would agree if you only looked at the last 50 years of parenting in western cultures. If this narrow window is how you view the whole of human history up to these last two generations in the culture you are most familiar I can not dispute your conclusions. That only leaves me the option to ask that you look beyond yourself and what you are comfortable with to every other generation that you are standing on to make your great judgment. I ask you look at the bigger picture and to whom your judgment excludes.

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Lemme just say. If god WAS real, I'd be joining the devil anyway.

You do understand this is not greek mythology right? The devil is not the god of the under world. The devil is cast into hell with the rest of the weeds, tares, chaff, goats etc.. Not to rule, but to be seperated from God just like everyone else.

This world is the closest thing the devil and his followers have to a kingdom. So enjoy it now, if this is what you truly have chosen for yourself.

[Tempus]

Agape' is unique to God in that it is a chosen or conditional love given a set of criteria or circumstances.

Agape means the opposite of what you've just described. It is unconditional, selfless love - although it can have different meanings, none of those include specifically conditional love. I instantly remembered it from my religion and philosophy classes in college, but, not being satisfied with that, I took a little time to look it up.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Etymology-Mea...-agape.htm
http://christianity.about.com/od/glossary/a/Agape.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love

It may be that that the Christian god's love is conditional - I have no trouble agreeing with that - but your definition of agape is wrong.

[Cinjin]

Re OP:

[Drich]

Agape means the opposite of what you've just described. It is unconditional, selfless love - although it can have different meanings, none of those include specifically conditional love. I instantly remembered it from my religion and philosophy classes in college, but, not being satisfied with that, I took a little time to look it up.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Etymology-Mea...-agape.htm
http://christianity.about.com/od/glossary/a/Agape.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love

It may be that that the Christian god's love is conditional - I have no trouble agreeing with that - but your definition of agape is wrong.

You seem to be looking to commentary to define a word. When did commentary superceed reference material?

Why not turn your efforts to a reference book like a lexicon?

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...=G25&t=KJV

This is the Thayer's lexicon supported by the Strong's concordance.
FYI these are reference books, and not commentaries based on doctrinal beliefs. all three of your links are commentaries.

[genkaus]

You misunderstand. Accepting God's love has nothing to do with living an easy life. It simply means you have your sins forgiven, and you will be placed on track with a relationship with God. For some this means a good life but for most this means trials and hardship. It all depends on your heart and what you need to endure to truly seek God.

So, god is like the worst bets friend ever. He wouldn't make your life easier and might even make it worse. What's the point of having a relationship with him if we don't get anything out of it.

[Napoléon]

Lemme just say. If god WAS real, I'd be joining the devil anyway.

You do understand this is not greek mythology right? The devil is not the god of the under world. The devil is cast into hell with the rest of the weeds, tares, chaff, goats etc.. Not to rule, but to be seperated from God just like everyone else.

This world is the closest thing the devil and his followers have to a kingdom. So enjoy it now, if this is what you truly have chosen for yourself.

I'll be playing cards with satan and darwin and hitch and galileo and all the other brilliant genius's that dwell there. Whilst you will be sitting in heaven getting bored for eternity with your grandparents.

[Kayenneh]

What you seem to misunderstand is that when translating from one language to another some meaning is lost in the act of translation.

Oh, I beg to differ, I do not misunderstand at all. If such a thing as 'lion' could in the first Finnish bibles be translated into 'jalopeura' (noble deer), I think it says a lot about just how much can be lost in translation, due to the massive difference in culture and environment regarding the writer and the reader/translator. But again, with all the editing, mistranslations, how the hell does anyone dare to bible bash others, without reading and understanding the original texts first? I have read the bible in three modern languages, and they are already quite different from each other. The bible is written by idiots, translated by idiots and worse, followed by idiots.