Why do Athiests require 'proof' that God exists?

[DeeTee]

People are never going to be "the same" as long as there are any differences

You still missed the point. keep in mind that the definition of the word 'same' is does not always refer to carbon copy.

what argument can you give me for God being any more real than Allah?

How do I know you are not going to simply dismiss what I say on a whim? The truth never changes and would have been at the begining as well as now. islam did not rise up until about the 5th or 6th centuries. Just on that basis alone we see that islam is not true.

We also have no ancient mss. for the Koran but we do have for the Bible and we see that its words have not changed. God promised to preserve His word and we can turn to ancient mss. and see this promise kept. For the Koran we have no such luxury, in fact we cannot even be sure mohommod's words were actually written down. I have a book at home on this which does address this problem with the Koran.

I will try to post the title and page number later or tomorrow.

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No, if God did not exist we would not be having any of these discussions and there would be no religious belief in the world. Everyone would be exactly the same.

That could be the single dumbest thing you've ever said, Arch....and that covers a lot of ground.

Even you must understand that peoples around the world invented gods long before your fucking yahweh was ever dreamed up by some semitic goatfucker. They had no more trouble inventing gods and religions that the forebears of your sad creed.

The invention of false gods is not an indicator that God, the Bible and jesus were invented or false. It is an indicator that supports the Biblical teaching that false teachers, prophets, etc. exist and work their deception.

[Kayenneh]

The truth never changes and would have been at the begining as well as now. islam did not rise up until about the 5th or 6th centuries. Just on that basis alone we see that islam is not true.

Amon-Ra and the gang says: "Bitch please!"

We also have no ancient mss. for the Koran but we do have for the Bible and we see that its words have not changed. God promised to preserve His word and we can turn to ancient mss. and see this promise kept.

The words of the bible has not changed? I beg to differ. It has been heavily edited, lots have been lost in translation, scrolls have gone missing or been ignored and it is frequently interpreted by idiots. I don't really see how that holds up..

[ElDinero]

Christianity is not even close to the oldest religion in the world anyway, DeeTee. Go and do a bit of reading.

In any case, something being old does not make said thing true.

[Ryft]

Think what you like. I disagree.

You may disagree, but that hardly affects the truth of my analysis. You said (Msg. 101) that "without supporting proof ... a proposition may not be claimed to be true." Since that proposition itself is incapable of any supporting proof, as a truth claim it is self-stultifying. So my question to you is, "Is it true that without supporting proof a proposition may not be claimed to be true?" By your own standards you must answer, "No."

This lesson in irony is completed.

[genkaus]

Basically, the answer to your question is that the unbeliever/atheist put themselves in a position of superiority and think they get to call the shots. They do not realize that they do not have that right nor authority.

God has already created the criteia for belief and His existence. The atheist can stamp their feet all they want and shout that everyone must meet their demands but the believer knows it just doesn't work that way. If the atheist/unbeliever wants proof that God exists then they must do things God's way.

God's way is: accept the Bible as true; humble oneself to God recognizing that he rules not unbelief; repent of their sins. the evidence they do get is marred by their unbelief and desires to live theirown lives as they please and still expect to get a reward.

Again, it doesn't work that way. Entry to heaven and meeting God goes through Jesus as He said "no man cometh unto the father but by me"

The rules are very clear and FAITH is part of the equation.

Affirm the consequent much? I knew that you fundies were bad at logic, but such a blatant use fallacies left and right? Really?

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No, if God did not exist we would not be having any of these discussions and there would be no religious belief in the world. Everyone would be exactly the same.

Yes, we would. Your delusions have nothing to do with god's existence.

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The invention of false gods is not an indicator that God, the Bible and jesus were invented or false. It is an indicator that supports the Biblical teaching that false teachers, prophets, etc. exist and work their deception.

No, the lies and immorality of your god and your bible are the indicator that they were invented and are false.

[Jackalope]

The words of the bible has not changed?

Perhaps he's referring to the original words. You know, the ones nobody now alive has ever seen.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

"Is it true that without supporting proof a proposition may not be claimed to be true?" By your own standards you must answer, "No.

Bollocks.

Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. Perhaps better if I stick to specifics: An agnostic atheist, I assert "I do not believe in Gods due to a lack of credible evidence."


Views based on ideas such as skepticism, monism,empiricism and materialism are neither new or unusual. They are simply incompatible with religious beliefs. I make no claims ,freely admitting I may be wrong. Neither have you established the truth you have claimed, which I dismiss as sophistry.


I have come to the of discussing this matter with you;there is no point;we each reject the other's premise.

[Neo-Scholastic]

... which I dismiss as sophistry.

So appartently, when Ryft and I point out your irrationality and poor logic you try to save face by calling us sophists. Pussy.

[Epimethean]

Coming into this a tad late. Chad, Ryft, aside from trying to point out a flaw in Pad's premises, what is it you would like to point out? Is there an overarching idea at stake, which we might all discuss?

[Thor]

islam did not rise up until about the 5th or 6th centuries. Just on that basis alone we see that islam is not true.

And Judaism is much older than Christianity. Hell, Christianity didn't spring up until 2,000 years ago. So, based on that alone we know that Christianity isn't true. Right?

we cannot even be sure mohommod's words were actually written down.

Replace "Mohammed" with "Jesus" and you're equally correct. Except that we know Mohammed actually existed. Can't say the same for Jesus.

The invention of false gods is not an indicator that God, the Bible and jesus were invented or false.

I see. YOUR god is real! All those other gods are fake!

It is an indicator that supports the Biblical teaching that false teachers, prophets, etc. exist and work their deception.

Wow! You mean the people who wrote your Babble, people who want you to believe that Jesus is the true prophet, put verses in their book warning you that all the other prophets are "false"? Imagine that.