Good reading for Christian Homophobes

[Gooders1002]

Yes a silly book, a silly book that has driven western culture and learning, inspired great art and thinkers, changed the lives of millions of people, given the west its entire basis for law and morality, still inspires people today to help the poor and downtrodden in the world, yes a very silly book it must be, obviously, because silly books can have that effect can't they....

That is not complete accurate, it has not driven learning and most of the thinkers were put down by your book and church, it stumped science for 600 years if not more, are West culture came from ancient Greece actually that was invade by the Persians and there Idea spread thought out the empire and which xian forth to reclaim Spain they found the ancient Greek scrolls and information there and that is the source of western culture. And if you want law and morality stear clear of the bible as it has multiple humans rights violations. And funny how the most relgious places in the world (except for america) are the poorest and worst of, there obviously no connection there then.... not. Your Silly book is a dangerous one in the wrong hands (which 99% of the time).

[StatCrux]

Yes a silly book, a silly book that has driven western culture and learning, inspired great art and thinkers, changed the lives of millions of people, given the west its entire basis for law and morality, still inspires people today to help the poor and downtrodden in the world, yes a very silly book it must be, obviously, because silly books can have that effect can't they....

thanks not complete accurate, it has not driven learning and most of the thinker were put down be your book and church, it stumped science for 600 years if not more, are West culture came from ancient Greece actually that was invade by the Persians and there Idea spray thought out the empire and which xian forth to reclaim Spain they found the aancient Greek scrolls and information there and that is the sauce of western culture. And if you want law and morality stear clear of the bible as it has multiple humans rights violations. and funny how the most relgious places in the world (except for america) are the poorest and worst of, there obviously no connection there then.... not. Your Silly book is a dangerous one in the wrong hands (which 99% it it).

can you name 5 thinkers "put down" by the Church? How has the bible "stumped science"? Did you know that science and learning was driven by Europe by the monasteries, look at the history of Jesuit scientists for example. Our judicial system in the west has a great deal to do with the bible, thats not just my opinion its a fact. Most religious places poorest? What about happiest places? Wealth of a country seems to create more drug addiction, crime, obesity, suicide, violence. I'd rather be in a poor country and happy that in America or UK living an empty material seeking miserable existence. That's speaking from experience, Thai people are much happier and content in general than English people, yet most are poor...but nearly everyone has Buddhist beliefs, ever heard of Bhutan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_scientists

[Tobie]

thanks not complete accurate, it has not driven learning and most of the thinker were put down be your book and church, it stumped science for 600 years if not more, are West culture came from ancient Greece actually that was invade by the Persians and there Idea spray thought out the empire and which xian forth to reclaim Spain they found the aancient Greek scrolls and information there and that is the sauce of western culture. And if you want law and morality stear clear of the bible as it has multiple humans rights violations. and funny how the most relgious places in the world (except for america) are the poorest and worst of, there obviously no connection there then.... not. Your Silly book is a dangerous one in the wrong hands (which 99% it it).

can you name 5 thinkers "put down" by the Church? How has the bible "stumped science"? Did you know that science and learning was driven by Europe by the monasteries, look at the history of Jesuit scientists for example. Our judicial system in the west has a great deal to do with the bible, thats not just my opinion its a fact. Most religious places poorest? What about happiest places? Wealth of a country seems to create more drug addiction, crime, obesity, suicide, violence. I'd rather be in a poor country and happy that in America or UK living an empty material seeking miserable existence. That's speaking from experience, Thai people are much happier and content in general than English people, yet most are poor...but nearly everyone has Buddhist beliefs, ever heard of Bhutan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_scientists

Off the top of my head, Galileo and Copernicus were both put down by the church. The christian anti-homosexual sentiment and laws contributed to the suicide of another - Alan Turing.

You don't seem to get it do you? "Irrational prejudices" according to you! BTW I don't "hate" anybody, I think some forms of behavior are incorrect. Do atheists "doggedly stick" to their prejudices against Christians? Everyone becomes a bigot to the opposing side in any argument, its such a meaningless term.

How is getting your rules from a book not irrational?

I am not prejudiced against christians, but against christianity. Ever heard of the phrase, "Don't hate the player, hate the game"?

[Gooders1002]

thanks not complete accurate, it has not driven learning and most of the thinker were put down be your book and church, it stumped science for 600 years if not more, are West culture came from ancient Greece actually that was invade by the Persians and there Idea spray thought out the empire and which xian forth to reclaim Spain they found the aancient Greek scrolls and information there and that is the sauce of western culture. And if you want law and morality stear clear of the bible as it has multiple humans rights violations. and funny how the most relgious places in the world (except for america) are the poorest and worst of, there obviously no connection there then.... not. Your Silly book is a dangerous one in the wrong hands (which 99% it it).

can you name 5 thinkers "put down" by the Church? How has the bible "stumped science"? Did you know that science and learning was driven by Europe by the monasteries, look at the history of Jesuit scientists for example. Our judicial system in the west has a great deal to do with the bible, thats not just my opinion its a fact. Most religious places poorest? What about happiest places? Wealth of a country seems to create more drug addiction, crime, obesity, suicide, violence. I'd rather be in a poor country and happy that in America or UK living an empty material seeking miserable existence. That's speaking from experience, Thai people are much happier and content in general than English people, yet most are poor...but nearly everyone has Buddhist beliefs, ever heard of Bhutan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_scientists

The Thai debatable, but every highly religious Abrahamic religion country is poor. Also 99% on the prison population is religious , and if your happy in those countries why don't you move there. I can't name 5 but I can Name to thinkers/sciences were Nickolaus Copernicus and Galileo. and they only restarted science after a period of 600 years or more, it helped only medical science and the rest was repressed. I personily think world would be better of if the Church never was as we would have discovered it anyway and we would be searching the starts instead of debating if gays should marry or not.

[The Grand Nudger]

I didn't ask you if you would kill guys Crux, I asked you if you agreed that they were "worthy of death". I don't see anything in that statement about "hating sin but not the sinner". I see it (literally btw) stating that these individuals are worthy of death.

Again, I'll have to mention that the text has not been stretched. The text states that these behaviors were a result of/punishment for their sin (which would be disbelief, as it clearly states at the very outset). Nowhere does it state that these behaviors (homosexuality specifically) are sinful in and of themselves. I took the time to explain this to you, and it seemed as per your response that we were in agreement on the matter? If you want to take a literal interpretation that is all that can be said. In other words, scripture is (literally) silent with regards to whether or not homosexuality is itself a sin. The authors assumed that disbelief in and of itself would lead to a variety of things that they held negative value judgements about (as do many christians today -check the forums for all of the "atheists are immoral" garbage-) but never made the claim that god specifically designated simply being a homosexual as sinful.

You are "entitled" to hold whatever position you like, and I am "entitled" to explain why your position is bigoted (and of course my comments only address my opinion of your position-which clearly matters very little to you). Double edged sword.

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Also i'm not talking about being effeminate, there are many very masculine men who engage in homosexual behavior.

Hilariously these are the type of homosexuals the authors didn't seem to have much of an issue with btw.

[StatCrux]

I didn't ask you if you would kill guys Crux, I asked you if you agreed that they were "worthy of death". I don't see anything in that statement about "hating sin but not the sinner". I see it (literally btw) stating that these individuals are worthy of death.

Again, I'll have to mention that the text has not been stretched. The text states that these behaviors were a result of/punishment for their sin (which would be disbelief, as it clearly states at the very outset). Nowhere does it state that these behaviors (homosexuality specifically) are sinful in and of themselves. I took the time to explain this to you, and it seemed as per your response that we were in agreement on the matter? If you want to take a literal interpretation that is all that can be said. In other words, scripture is (literally) silent with regards to whether or not homosexuality is itself a sin. The authors assumed that disbelief in and of itself would lead to a variety of things that they held negative value judgements about (as do many christians today -check the forums for all of the "atheists are immoral" garbage-) but never made the claim that god specifically designated simply being a homosexual as sinful.

You are "entitled" to hold whatever position you like, and I am "entitled" to explain why your position is bigoted (and of course my comments only address my opinion of your position-which clearly matters very little to you). Double edged sword.

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Also i'm not talking about being effeminate, there are many very masculine men who engage in homosexual behavior.

Hilariously these are the type of homosexuals the authors didn't seem to have much of an issue with btw.

I'm not really sure why you keep saying scripture is silent on the matter, I believe in scripture and Tradition as having authority, I'm not limited to scripture and the only authority for interpreting the true meaning of the bible is the Church.

[The Grand Nudger]

It would be tradition you are appealing to here, not scripture. So we've finally reached the crux of the matter. When it comes to light that scripture may not provide a rock solid justification for your bigotry you appeal to the bigotry of others down through the ages?
Bravo.

(if, btw, you aren't limited to scripture, than what's to prevent some asshat from simply making shit up? You know, shit like "god hates fags"? Let's say the original authors of these texts took the same approach. They aren't limited only to gods word (what we would now call "scripture"), they can include tradition- which at that point would be pagan-. Well well, things are starting to take shape aren't they?)

[StatCrux]

It would be tradition you are appealing to here, not scripture. So we've finally reached the crux of the matter. When it comes to light that scripture may not provide a rock solid justification for your bigotry you appeal to the bigotry of others down through the ages?
Bravo.

(if, btw, you aren't limited to scripture, than what's to prevent some asshat from simply making shit up? You know, shit like "god hates fags"? Let's say the original authors of these texts took the same approach. They aren't limited only to gods word, they can include tradition, which, at that point, would be pagan. Well well, things are starting to take shape aren't they?)

I still don't accept your interpretation of scripture, they are not punished, God gives them up to these desires, desires which they have already. The passage is saying that when you refuse to acknowledge God you become overcome by evil desires and practices which it describes.

So your interpretation is wrong even if I only accepted scripture alone.
As for someone making shit up, that's why the Church has councils to determine teaching, so no individual can simply "make shit up" that's exactly why protestant sects are in error, because they broke from the Church and went and "made shit up"

[The Grand Nudger]

It's good to know that all we have to do is form a committee and our declarations are guaranteed to be error free...lol.

You are correct, the verse is stating that when you commit a sin (disbelief) that bad things™ will happen to you. Disbelief is well defined as sinful, homosexuality is not. It is perceived (in this very verse no less) as an effect of sinfulness.

I'm not interpreting, I'm repeating. Nevertheless, whether or not you accept scripture is irrelevant to me, I think it's all utter bullshit. I'm just reminding you that it is your own personal bias (and, apparently, the infallibility of tradition) not gods opinion which you are siding with here. Protestants are in error no more than yourself. Forgive me for proposing that if there were a god, and this god had teachings, it would be incumbent upon this god to decide what those teachings were, not your favorite book club. Oh ye of little faith.

[StatCrux]

It's good to know that all we have to do is form a committee and our declarations are guaranteed to be error free...lol.

You are correct, the verse is stating that when you commit a sin (disbelief) that bad things™ will happen to you. Disbelief is well defined as sinful, homosexuality is not. It is perceived (in this very verse no less) as an effect of sinfulness.

I'm not interpreting, I'm repeating. Nevertheless, whether or not you accept scripture is irrelevant to me, I think it's all utter bullshit. I'm just reminding you that it is your own personal bias (and, apparently, the infallibility of tradition) not gods opinion which you are siding with here. Protestants are in error no more than yourself. Forgive me for proposing that if there were a god, and this god had teachings, it would be incumbent upon this god to decide what those teachings were, not your favorite book club. Oh ye of little faith.

The sin of Sodom is a sin that cries out to heaven.