Where Did the Trinity Teaching Come From?

[Polaris]

So the myth got altered slightly, big whoop. A myths a myth.

Well actually not all myths are equal. Some are actually more based on history than other myths, but those are basically legends that have become degraded over the millennium.

In some instances, history becomes legend and then legend becomes myth. Legend is loosely based on history and myth may incorporate or have at its center a historical event that may be very different than the actual event.

[downbeatplumb]

So the myth got altered slightly, big whoop. A myths a myth.

Well actually not all myths are equal. Some are actually more based on history than other myths, but those are basically legends that have become degraded over the millennium.

In some instances, history becomes legend and then legend becomes myth. Legend is loosely based on history and myth may incorporate or have at its center a historical event that may be very different than the actual event.

You know what you need to sort those out....science.

[Polaris]

Well actually not all myths are equal. Some are actually more based on history than other myths, but those are basically legends that have become degraded over the millennium.

In some instances, history becomes legend and then legend becomes myth. Legend is loosely based on history and myth may incorporate or have at its center a historical event that may be very different than the actual event.

You know what you need to sort those out....science.

Well archaeology. I mean we did find what is believed to be Troy after all.

[Anomalocaris]

So the myth got altered slightly, big whoop. A myths a myth.

Well actually not all myths are equal. Some are actually more based on history than other myths, but those are basically legends that have become degraded over the millennium.

In some instances, history becomes legend and then legend becomes myth. Legend is loosely based on history and myth may incorporate or have at its center a historical event that may be very different than the actual event.

Does that reduce the degree of idiocy that must be involved in not only take the myth at its face value, but trying to parse hidden truth from the punctuation selected in the translation of the myth from a different launguage, which was in turn translated from another language, that was in turn a compilation of records of unknown authenticist, of the words of illiterate and superstitious hoi palloi at the bottom of social strata conveying, however unequal, what is still a myth?

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You know what you need to sort those out....science.

Well archaeology. I mean we did find what is believed to be Troy after all.

If they find the foot prints of goddess Athena in troy, then let's talk.

[Minimalist]

You know what you need to sort those out....science.

Well archaeology. I mean we did find what is believed to be Troy after all.

There are ruins of towns all over the ANE. Two of them apparently led some creative bastard to concoct the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.

There are a whole pile of towns located in Hissarlik as it is a classic tel. That hardly means the Iliad is true.

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Anyway, it is hard to argue with Alter's premise, that the "trinity" developed much later.

Luke 23:34

Then Jesus said, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do".

I mean...who was ole jesus talking to? Himself??

Of course, as far as I am concerned this simply means that the whole story is a human concoction...not just the "trinity" part.

[Godscreated]

You should be a little more careful in quoting verses, what I mean you should read the verses around the ones you quote, you could find some answers to your own questions.

ALTER2EGO -to- GODSCHILD:
I appreciate your respectful approach.

I quoted the scripture at 1 Corinthians 8:5 with full knowledge of what's written in verses 4 and 6. What point are you making by presenting the other two verses?

1st Corinthians 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and there is no God but one.
5) For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
6) yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Though you pulled this out of the middle of a chapter on causing other Christians to stumble, it works, it works to show that the Father and Son are one and that we exist for and through God. So now we have scripture telling us that two of the three are one God.

ALTER2EGO -to- GODSCHILD:
I'm waiting for you to explain where those verses say anything about Jehovah the Father and Jesus Christ the son being one and the same. Verse 6 clearly makes a distinction between the two of them, as follows.

1. "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him;"

2. "and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him."

You do understand why the word "and" is used after the semi-colon in verse 6; don't you? The word "and" is used when separating independent clauses. A mere comma could have been used to separate the two statements listed above. But the translator went further by using a semi-colon, which is the strongest indication of an independent clause. To put it simply, statement #1 ("yet for us there is but one God, the Father") is completely independent of what's written in sentence #2 ("and one Lord, Jesus Christ"). The apostle Paul is talking about to separate and distinct individuals.

It seems to me that you are saying either there are two gods, which scriptures never teach, or that Jesus is not God in any way, also not taught in scripture. Yes the semi-colon separates the two for descriptive purposes, not to separate God and Christ as two different beings. How is it that we can exist for two separate beings when God said, that He is a jealous God and we're not to worship another. How do you reconcile Christ's statement that He and the Father are one, and that the Holy Spirit knows the mind of God. Seems that without being God the Holy Spirit could not know the mind of God. Also Genesis 1 and John 1 establish that all three were present at the creation, so yes scripture does teach the Trinity. In Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like Us, God was not talking to the angels, this is a reference to the Trinity.

[Polaris]

Well archaeology. I mean we did find what is believed to be Troy after all.

There are ruins of towns all over the ANE. Two of them apparently led some creative bastard to concoct the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.

There are a whole pile of towns located in Hissarlik as it is a classic tel. That hardly means the Iliad is true.

---

Anyway, it is hard to argue with Alter's premise, that the "trinity" developed much later.

Luke 23:34

Then Jesus said, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do".

I mean...who was ole jesus talking to? Himself??

Of course, as far as I am concerned this simply means that the whole story is a human concoction...not just the "trinity" part.

It just means there was war between the Trojans and the Proto-Greeks. The Illiad is merely a propaganda piece about the war. It is theorized that the war was just over access to trade with the cultures living in the area around the Black Sea.

[Minimalist]

It just means there was war between the Trojans and the Proto-Greeks.

Actually, it doesn't. Troy VII-A is the candidate for the supposed Trojan war because the destruction layer is dated to 1190BC. The problem here is that this is precisely when the Sea Peoples were running rampant over the entire region.
Given the scope of the cataclysm unleashed by the Sea People I'd say they were a better choice.

[Polaris]

It just means there was war between the Trojans and the Proto-Greeks.

Actually, it doesn't. Troy VII-A is the candidate for the supposed Trojan war because the destruction layer is dated to 1190BC. The problem here is that this is precisely when the Sea Peoples were running rampant over the entire region.
Given the scope of the cataclysm unleashed by the Sea People I'd say they were a better choice.

Didn't they come from that region though instead of invading it?

[Neo-Scholastic]

Christians and non-Christians alike are confused by the doctrine of the Trinity. In the Word the Father means one thing, the Son means another thing, and Holy Spirit means a third; but all refer to a single God. The Father refers to God’s Love. The Son refers to His Wisdom, or what is the same, Truth. And the Holy Spirit refers to God’s Power. Yet, Nothing is more clear than that God is One, as stated in these representative verses: Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord. (Deut. 9:4) …now therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. (Deut. 4:30) …I have Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am YHVH and beside me there is no Savior (Isaiah 43:10,11) There is so God else besides me, a just God and a Savior, there is none beside me (Isaiah 45: 21) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.(Rev. 22:13)

And He has one name by which He is known: And the Lord shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name one. (Zech. 14:9) …made Your name known [our Lord Jesus Christ] to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them. (John 17:25) And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [our Lord Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of [by the authority of Jesus Christ] the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.[that name is our Lord Jesus Christ] (Matt. 28:18)

These passages show that the infinite love of God is the Father of all our Lord does: Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father [love] abiding in Me does His works. (John 14:10)

These verses call our attention to our Lord’s truth manifest in the Son: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the Truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. (John 14:6) In these passages we read about the unity of Divine Love and Wisdom: I and the Father are one. (John 10:20) And he that seeth me, seeth Him that sent me.(John 12:45) Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? (John 14:8-9) All things that the Father hath are mine. (John 16:15; 17:10) As You [love] sent Me [truth] into the world, I also have sent them into the world. For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. (John 17:18-21)

The Holy Spirit means God’s Power as seen in these passages from the Word: The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35) Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit [divine power], returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness (Luke 4:1) David himself said in the Holy Spirit [with power and authority], 'the Lord said to my lord, "sit at my right hand, until i put your enemies beneath your feet.’ (Mark 12:36) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit [divine power] was giving them utterance. (Acts 2:4) Here we see the word spirit used as a simple synonym for power: Wherever the spirit was about to go, they would go in that direction. And the wheels rose close beside them; for the spirit of the living beings was in the wheels. (Ezekiel 1:20) Our Lord wears the mantel of power: The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD. (Isaiah 11:2) We are to pray with power!: But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,… (Jude 1:20) But to claim for yourself God’s power to save leads to damnation: …but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin (Mark 30:29)