Pat Robertson says it's ok to ignore parts of the Bible.

[Cantor]

Gee.... if the Babble is wrong about slavery, what else is it wrong about?

Pretty much everything...

[Ziploc Surprise]

Ok, how about I copy and paste the whole text.

"Apparently, we can pick and choose parts of the Bible after all, says Pat Robertson. When asked on the 700 Club today why some believe “America was founded as a Christian nation” even though it allowed slavery, Robertson said, “like it or not, if you read the Bible in the Old Testament, slavery was permitted.” But Robertson concluded that despite what the Bible says, “We have moved in our conception of the value of human beings until we realized slavery was terribly wrong.” Of course, when Dan Savage made a similar point about the Bible (albeit with saltier language), the Religious Right was irate."

When the passage said "(Pat Robertson said) We can pick and choose parts of the Bible after all." This was not a direct quote from Pat Robertson. It was a comentary about what he essentially said. Pat Robertson said (paraphrased for argument) that the Bible says slavery is permitted but then he said "we have moved in our conception of the value of human beings until we realized slavery was terribly wrong". If Pat Robertson agrees that these two things are true you must logically have to ignore one rule/moral in favor of the other. The argument turns on the value of a human being. The OT says the value of a human being can be little enough to purchase him or her for money. Our new conception of the value of a human being is that human beings are far to valuable to be purchased. Humans are no longer to be considered things that can be bought and sold. It is wrong to buy and sell human beings. Therefore to say that "Pat Robertson says we can pick and choose parts of the Bible" in the context of a comentary (as it was meant in the article that accompanied the video) is a correct assessment of what Pat Robertson said given the information we have.

---

Straight from the horse's mouth ass.

Fixed that for you.

Thanks

[Taqiyya Mockingbird]

Cutting through the equivocation and theist dodging bullshit:



What was said was:

"Over the holiday, I heard that America was founded as a Christian nation. If that's the case, why did we allow slavery?"

Robertson's answer was:

"Well, I think there was a blind spot. You know, uh, ah, ah, like it or not, if you read the bible, in the old testament, slavery was permitted, uh, you'd go into a nation [unintelligible] you, a country would go into another country and, and enslave the population, and those people were put to work. "
(Woman: "use them for....labor")
Robertson: "....Use them,...and, a-, a-, as commodities. And so we have...moved in our conception of the value of human beings over the years, until we realize slavery was terribly wrong."

So we have a couple of interesting things going on here. All of course within the box of the x-tard belief system. One is a problem for Dreck, who claims that we are not in a position to question "gawd's law". Of course, claiming that slavery is wrong is against the sanction of this mythical being, so Dreck can have lots of fun defending slavery.

Of course, barring that, if he wishes to argue that his mythical gawd-thang changed its mind, he runs afoul of the claim that his mythical gawd-thang is omniscient and perfect, because for an omniscient, perfect being to ever be wrong would unmake the universe.



Have fun with that.

[Minimalist]

Of course, barring that, if he wishes to argue that his mythical gawd-thang changed its mind, he runs afoul of the claim that his mythical gawd-thang is omniscient and perfect, because for an omniscient, perfect being to ever be wrong would unmake the universe.

This could be highly entertaining if Drippy takes the bait, Taq.

[Drich]

he doesn't say either of those things in any way shape or form. WATCH THE CLIP.

I watched the clip. He doesn't come out and say "you can cherry-pick". However, he does say that the Bible condones slavery. Right after that, he says that we now know that treating humans like commodities is wrong. So the Bible: Slavery is a-okay! And modern society: Slavery is very, very wrong.

I take this to mean their is a seperation between what 'we' were doing in the those days as being different than what the bible condones. I see it this way because slaves were not "commodities" they have a very strict rights and laws governing how slaves were to be treated. There are nor were their any laws concerning the 'rights' of commodities.

Pat Chose His words very carefully, and if the clip was not edited short i am sure we would have saw him tie the precepts together... Matter of fact when I just googled it Pat was being slamed for condoning slavery and speaking out against an old recounting of a slave revolt, to defend what the bible says about slavery.
http://wisb.blogspot.com/2010/01/haiti-a...is-ok.html
Again, not a big fan of Pat, but I am less of a fan of out and out slander.

[Brian37]

What a shocker, religion only stays relevant when it it cherry picks. I hate that civility in our species history isn't about giving up on bad claims. It adapts to stay relevant and cannot stand new data passing it up.

But lets not make this a label issue. Our species always does this politically and religiously. A pattern gets developed in a given society, and when their dirty laundry is aired, they back peddle instead of scrapping the bad data.

I blast Sam Harris for his Buddhism stuff, but I agree 100% that this cherry picking by liberal and moderates only serves to let a bad idea fester long term in human evolution.

I will give Pat some credit. At least he sees now, maybe having a change of heart in his old age facing his mortality, that if one were to take ANY holy book literally, you would have to become a monster.

So this cherry picking to me is a double edge sword. It does have the benefit of seeking civility, but it still comes at the cost of protecting bad claims. It is always the skeptic and the questioner that pulls, not only they fundies, but the moderates as well, kicking and screaming into the future. Cherry picking is merely a way to save face when you know the book you buy is bullshit, but are in love with an idea.

[Cato]

I find it amusing that Robertson invokes the OT as if to exonerate the NT on the subject.

The fact remains that the Bible tacitly approves of the institution of slavery as a matter of course. Nowhere does it prohibit the practice.

[Taqiyya Mockingbird]

I watched the clip. He doesn't come out and say "you can cherry-pick". However, he does say that the Bible condones slavery. Right after that, he says that we now know that treating humans like commodities is wrong. So the Bible: Slavery is a-okay! And modern society: Slavery is very, very wrong.

I take this to mean their is a seperation between what 'we' were doing in the those days as being different than what the bible condones. I see it this way because slaves were not "commodities" they have a very strict rights and laws governing how slaves were to be treated. There are nor were their any laws concerning the 'rights' of commodities.

Pat Chose His words very carefully, and if the clip was not edited short i am sure we would have saw him tie the precepts together... Matter of fact when I just googled it Pat was being slamed for condoning slavery and speaking out against an old recounting of a slave revolt, to defend what the bible says about slavery.
http://wisb.blogspot.com/2010/01/haiti-a...is-ok.html
Again, not a big fan of Pat, but I am less of a fan of out and out slander.

Always the dodger.


Note the position of the commandments about slavery, right behind the famous "10 commandments" (included for context).

Exodus 20


New International Version (NIV)
The Ten Commandments

20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”

20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.
Idols and Altars

22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites this: ‘You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven: 23 Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.

24 “‘Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you. 25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. 26 And do not go up to my altar on steps, or your private parts may be exposed.’

Exodus 21


21 “These are the laws you are to set before them:

Hebrew Servants

2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[b] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.


Personal Injuries

12 “Anyone who strikes a person with a fatal blow is to be put to death. 13 However, if it is not done intentionally, but God lets it happen, they are to flee to a place I will designate. 14 But if anyone schemes and kills someone deliberately, that person is to be taken from my altar and put to death.

15 “Anyone who attacks[c] their father or mother is to be put to death.

16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

17 “Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

18 “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, 19 the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

26 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.

28 “If a bull gores a man or woman to death, the bull is to be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. 29 If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull is to be stoned and its owner also is to be put to death. 30 However, if payment is demanded, the owner may redeem his life by the payment of whatever is demanded. 31 This law also applies if the bull gores a son or daughter. 32 If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels[f] of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull is to be stoned to death.

33 “If anyone uncovers a pit or digs one and fails to cover it and an ox or a donkey falls into it, 34 the one who opened the pit must pay the owner for the loss and take the dead animal in exchange.

35 “If anyone’s bull injures someone else’s bull and it dies, the two parties are to sell the live one and divide both the money and the dead animal equally. 36 However, if it was known that the bull had the habit of goring, yet the owner did not keep it penned up, the owner must pay, animal for animal, and take the dead animal in exchange.

Pretty damning evidence for the personal sanctioning of slavery by the mythical OT god-figure.

[Brian37]

I find it amusing that Robertson invokes the OT as if to exonerate the NT on the subject.

The fact remains that the Bible tacitly approves of the institution of slavery as a matter of course. Nowhere does it prohibit the practice.

The entire concept of having a "manual" for life is sick, be it a political or religious label. Common consent and common law can be the only manual for civility, not common political party or common religion.

It allows humans to divide on artificial labels allowing the powers that be distract us from the fact that we all want food, jobs, love, and the right to bitch when we don't like something.

But the ones written that long ago, were understandable, because as far as our mental evolution, back then, plus the lack of scientific knowledge and human psychology, we were merely at that time, kids fighting in the playground, but with deadly results. What frustrates me more about our species is that when we know better, we still childishly cling to our own predilections and superstitions.

[Erinome]

If that part is terribly wrong, then logic suggests that more parts of it are terribly wrong.