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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 19, 2012 at 6:04 pm
(July 18, 2012 at 7:17 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: my comment did contain personal testimony which we seem to accept in other areas of our lives.
That's bullshit. "We" do not accept personal testimony as evidence of extraordinary events in other areas of "our" lives. We accept it when a friend tells us about the close call they had on the drive home, typically... but not if we are told that faeries wear boots and ya gotta believe me. I saw, I saw it with my own two eyes...
How about some intellectual honesty? Or is it true that it's against your religion?
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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 19, 2012 at 11:15 pm
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2012 at 11:54 pm by Jeffonthenet.)
(July 19, 2012 at 5:34 pm)Nemo Wrote: Here is one for you. If i was to claim I saw god in a vision would you blindly believe me?
If you said that I wouldn't blindly believe you, but I would consider it. I wouldn't blindly disbelieve you either.
(July 19, 2012 at 6:04 pm)Paul the Human Wrote: (July 18, 2012 at 7:17 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: my comment did contain personal testimony which we seem to accept in other areas of our lives.
That's bullshit. "We" do not accept personal testimony as evidence of extraordinary events in other areas of "our" lives. We accept it when a friend tells us about the close call they had on the drive home, typically... but not if we are told that faeries wear boots and ya gotta believe me. I saw, I saw it with my own two eyes...
How about some intellectual honesty? Or is it true that it's against your religion?
If my mother told me that she was robbed by Italians dressed like Mario, I would believe her. That would be an extraordinary event. Now if you claim God is so extraordinary it is comparable to fairies, I would like to see some argument for that as it is certainly not self-evident to all people.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 20, 2012 at 8:15 am
Isn't that half the bible summed up then?
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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 20, 2012 at 12:50 pm
(July 19, 2012 at 11:15 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: Now if you claim God is so extraordinary it is comparable to fairies, I would like to see some argument for that as it is certainly not self-evident to all people.
Just because you are used to an idea does not make it not a shit idea. For generations people did in all seriousness believe in fairies. In britain people used to think that fairies shot invisible arrows at you to cause harm. This is where the expression "a shooting pain" comes from.
Please explain how a one off creature that existed outside of space and time but created everything, is able to judge you on your beliefs and actions because if monitors everything and is able to split itself so that it can be human and god at the same time IS NOT AN EXTRADINARY CLAIM.
You realise that I could have just gone on and on with the above but my din dins are almost ready.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 21, 2012 at 9:49 am
(This post was last modified: July 21, 2012 at 9:52 am by Jeffonthenet.)
(July 20, 2012 at 12:50 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: (July 19, 2012 at 11:15 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: Now if you claim God is so extraordinary it is comparable to fairies, I would like to see some argument for that as it is certainly not self-evident to all people.
Just because you are used to an idea does not make it not a shit idea. For generations people did in all seriousness believe in fairies. In britain people used to think that fairies shot invisible arrows at you to cause harm. This is where the expression "a shooting pain" comes from.
Please explain how a one off creature that existed outside of space and time but created everything, is able to judge you on your beliefs and actions because if monitors everything and is able to split itself so that it can be human and god at the same time IS NOT AN EXTRADINARY CLAIM.
You realise that I could have just gone on and on with the above but my din dins are almost ready. [/quote]
I didn't say it wasn't an extraordinary claim, (for the sake of argument I will grant you that it is) I said it wasn't comparable to claiming fairies exist. And I still think it is your burden of proof if you say that it is as such things as it is not self-evident to just about everyone like the non-belief of fairies are. Even some atheists disbelieve in God but do not think that it is such a crazy thing as believing in fairies.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 21, 2012 at 12:06 pm
(July 21, 2012 at 9:49 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote: (July 20, 2012 at 12:50 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Just because you are used to an idea does not make it not a shit idea. For generations people did in all seriousness believe in fairies. In britain people used to think that fairies shot invisible arrows at you to cause harm. This is where the expression "a shooting pain" comes from.
Please explain how a one off creature that existed outside of space and time but created everything, is able to judge you on your beliefs and actions because if monitors everything and is able to split itself so that it can be human and god at the same time IS NOT AN EXTRADINARY CLAIM.
You realise that I could have just gone on and on with the above but my din dins are almost ready.
I didn't say it wasn't an extraordinary claim, (for the sake of argument I will grant you that it is) I said it wasn't comparable to claiming fairies exist. And I still think it is your burden of proof if you say that it is as such things as it is not self-evident to just about everyone like the non-belief of fairies are. Even some atheists disbelieve in God but do not think that it is such a crazy thing as believing in fairies.
[/quote]
Lets do a comparison here; fairies - magical creatures with no evidence for their existence. Gods - powerful magical beings, some transcendent and some imminent, with no evidence for their existence. See the similarity? Just because there is more literature and followers for gods, does not make it any less of a supernatural claim.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - J.R.R Tolkien
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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 24, 2012 at 12:29 pm
I honestly don't see how this became about burden of proof. The article is addressing a positive claim made by atheists that biblical contradictions with itself and with observable reality disprove the bible. I'm not sure but I think Jeff realizes that the article isn't intended to provide evidence for the existence of God.
I feel the article is making a false analogy. Dressing up in average clothes and playing in a metro station would be more like God spreading his message through average people (such as the bible was written) BUT you would still expect the message to be top-notch and without contradiction in the same way Bell played incredible music very well. This way of spreading the message would ensure people would accept God and his message for the sake of the message, rather than out of pure fear of God.
A proper analogy to what we see in the bible would be Bell dressing up in average clothes, such that most people wouldn't recognize him, playing a mediocre song, making lots of mistakes, all the while claiming to be Joshua Bell.
You see, in the story Bell's message is his song. In Christianity God's message is the bible.
Bell plays the songs perfectly as always; however, the argument is used to show why God's message is imperfect.
False analogy.
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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 24, 2012 at 1:00 pm
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2012 at 1:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 19, 2012 at 11:15 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: If my mother told me that she was robbed by Italians dressed like Mario, I would believe her. That would be an extraordinary event. Now if you claim God is so extraordinary it is comparable to fairies, I would like to see some argument for that as it is certainly not self-evident to all people.
Sons place an inordinate amount of confidence in their mothers...don't we.
Look, it's already been established that you'd believe half baked stories, what did you hope to elaborate upon with that little tidbit about mommy? Compared to the pills you've already swallowed that would be small potatoes wouldn't it? Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with your ability to so readily accept such a fanciful tale as a random mugging by hirsute mediterraneans dressed as video game characters.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 24, 2012 at 1:46 pm
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
July 25, 2012 at 1:17 am
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2012 at 1:19 am by Jeffonthenet.)
(July 21, 2012 at 12:06 pm)Tobie Wrote: Quote: (July 21, 2012 at 9:49 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote:
I didn't say it wasn't an extraordinary claim, (for the sake of argument I will grant you that it is) I said it wasn't comparable to claiming fairies exist. And I still think it is your burden of proof if you say that it is as such things as it is not self-evident to just about everyone like the non-belief of fairies are. Even some atheists disbelieve in God but do not think that it is such a crazy thing as believing in fairies.
Lets do a comparison here; fairies - magical creatures with no evidence for their existence. Gods - powerful magical beings, some transcendent and some imminent, with no evidence for their existence. See the similarity? Just because there is more literature and followers for gods, does not make it any less of a supernatural claim.
I wouldn't describe God as "magical," but as supernatural. And if there are two similarities it doesn't make an identity.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
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