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RE: Obama care
August 14, 2012 at 12:28 pm
http://www.beggarscanbechoosers.com/2007...ntrol.html
Quote:And speaking of gun control ordinances, as Wikipedia points out, the O.K. Corral shootout itself was sparked by Virgil Earp's efforts to "enforce Tombstone's law prohibiting the carrying of deadly weapons."
The fact is, the Old West was downright safe, compared to today's blood-soaked streets in America. For one thing, no one in the Old West ever had to face down a lethal killing instrument like a modern-day Glock semi-automatic pistol. Firearms in the Old West were downright crude and tame, compared to a Glock.
If even a Wild West town like Tombstone could have strict gun control ordinances, why can't we do the same as a nation today?
Quote: It is my view that without other necessary reforms, we cannot achieve what our peers in the international community have been able to accomplish.
So therefore we do nothing while the shootings continue? Because we can not magically solve the problem with one simple action we stand around with our thumbs up our asses whining? Sorry. That's not very impressive.
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RE: Obama care
August 14, 2012 at 12:39 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2012 at 12:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
"downright crude and tame, compared to a Glock" sure, except that they didn't have a Glock to compare it to. Breach-loaders were incredibly sophisticated and absolutely lethal. An accurate comparison to today would be that assault rifles are downright crude and tame compared to ap grenades or UAV's.
We really should have stricter gun control regulations in this country, nevertheless.
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RE: Obama care
August 14, 2012 at 3:15 pm
(August 14, 2012 at 12:28 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So therefore we do nothing while the shootings continue? Because we can not magically solve the problem with one simple action we stand around with our thumbs up our asses whining? Sorry. That's not very impressive.
I don't recall saying we should do nothing. As a matter of fact, I recall saying that we are going to need to do a whole lot more than nothing, and that we ought to recognize that our problems run deep, a lot deeper than will be fixed by focusing on a one-dimensional solution. Should we address gun control in the US? Yes, absolutely.
We should try to understand what measures are likely to be effective. I'm in favor of effective control, but recognize that it requires the expenditure of enormous political capital to accomplish, and thus should target what will be effective.
The AW ban was a fucking joke in terms of effectiveness in reducing violence, and if you recall what happened in 1994 partially as a result of that (the Democrats lost control of both houses of Congress)... was that the best expenditure of political capital? I think not. How many lives were saved as a result of that ill-conceived law? Probably exactly zero. When they lost both houses of Congress, for how many years was the Democratic party's agenda stalled? I could very reasonably argue that it's still stalled today, 18 years later.
For how many years was health care reform a dead issue in congress because the right had a hammerlock on the vote? How many lives did that cost?
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RE: Obama care
August 15, 2012 at 2:22 pm
What negated the efficacy of the AW ban and what could be done to reach the desired results (ie less deaths)?
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RE: Obama care
August 15, 2012 at 3:13 pm
(August 15, 2012 at 2:22 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: What negated the efficacy of the AW ban and what could be done to reach the desired results (ie less deaths)?
As to the first question, 1) it targeted weapons that are vastly underrepresented in violent crime, and 2) defined weapons by essentially cosmetic features - e.g. post-ban, you could still legally purchase anything you could pre-ban - the difference between a pre-ban AR-15 and a post-ban one is a) the name was changed, b) no bayonet lug or flash supressor.
Difference in utility? Zero. I cannot point to that law and honestly claim it saved lives, nor have I seen anyone else make a convincing argument that it did.
As to the second question - it's a good one, and one that I think about often. I don't have a satisfactory answer at this time - but it is my opinion that it will include several elements: some increased gun control, addressing root causes of violent crime as well as our criminal justice system, education, social and economic justice... the list goes on.
Short of absolute prohibition and confiscation, any measure that I have seen proposed seems akin to putting a band-aid on an arterial gusher. Even if that could be and were accomplished, there is still the underlying problem that we have elements of our society who are prone to violence, and that will continue to be true.
One issue I would like to see honestly studied is whether or not the background checks system for purchases from dealers has been effective in reducing violent crime, and whether non-dealer transfers can be brought into the system as well. However, there are Constitutional issues with implementing this at the Federal level for intrastate private transfers - and in order for it to be effective, I think it's going to have to be done at the Federal level.
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