Atheism is the punk rock of religion

[fr0d0]

You think that the dictionary is saying that consumerism is actually a religion??

Atheism, even stripped down to "lack of belief " is still something people think important enough to have infinite conversation about, and make a living from the gullible over.

I was pretty happy going along with that simple definition of atheism. You're convincing me otherwise lol!

[Reforged]

You think that the dictionary is saying that consumerism is actually a religion??

Atheism, even stripped down to "lack of belief " is still something people think important enough to have infinite conversation about, and make a living from the gullible over.

I was pretty happy going along with that simple definition of atheism. You're convincing me otherwise lol!

"You think that the dictionary is saying that consumerism is actually a religion??"
No, I do not. Do you?

"Atheism, even stripped down to "lack of belief " is still something people think important enough to have infinite conversation about, and make a living from the gullible over."
Even if I was to accept that assessment;
So is real estate. So what?

"I was pretty happy going along with that simple definition of atheism. You're convincing me otherwise lol!"
Do you mean "Atheism = lack of belief in God."? Because thats your definition, I've quoted it from one of your posts. I'm glad you're happy to go along with that. Well done.

Are we done?

[fr0d0]

So if the dictionary is saying that consumerism isn't a religion, then you agree that it is saying that atheism is a religious activity? lol

From Wikipedia:

Atheism:

"Atheism is accepted within some religious and spiritual belief systems, including Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Neopagan movements such as Wicca, [18] and nontheistic religions. Jainism and some forms of Buddhism do not advocate belief in gods, whereas Hinduism holds atheism to be valid, but some schools view the path of an atheist to be difficult to follow in matters of spirituality."

[Reforged]

So if the dictionary is saying that consumerism isn't a religion, then you agree that it is saying that atheism is a religious activity? lol

From Wikipedia:

Atheism:

"Atheism is accepted within some religious and spiritual belief systems, including Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Neopagan movements such as Wicca, [18] and nontheistic religions. Jainism and some forms of Buddhism do not advocate belief in gods, whereas Hinduism holds atheism to be valid, but some schools view the path of an atheist to be difficult to follow in matters of spirituality."

"So if the dictionary is saying that consumerism isn't a religion, then you agree that it is saying that atheism is a religious activity? lol"
I assume you mean the definition:
"A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance
- consumerism is the new religion"
Ok so you just established consumerism is not a religion according to this definition, that "consumerism is the new religion" is not to be taken literally. That it only shares similarity to religion. If you can say that about consumerism despite it being in the definition how on earth are you going to say Atheism is a religious position?
Take me through this, just let me strap in and brace myself first.

All you've just told me is some religions have atheistic views toward other religions and certain matters.
That doesn't make atheism a religious position in itself.

To be honest I'm just adding this so people don't forget at this point: "Atheism = lack of belief in God." Fr0d0, 2012.

Soooo.... done?

[fr0d0]

Given this:

"re·li·gion
noun /riˈlijən/ 
religions, plural

A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance
- consumerism is the new religion

Something that someone ascribes supreme importance to, ie consumerism, = religion

You agreed that atheism can be something that someone could ascribe supreme importance to. (see post #72)

You have therefore said that atheism is a religion.

---

All you've just told me is some religions have atheistic views toward other religions and certain matters.

Let me remind you what you said again
From post #61 above:

Someone who has no Gods and no belief system is someone we cannot class as being part of any religion. So we call them Atheists, period. A religious person can display atheist views toward another religion but not of their own so they would not be called an Atheist.

and what Wikipedia says about Atheism:

Atheism is accepted within some religious and spiritual belief systems, including Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Neopagan movements[17] such as Wicca,[18] and nontheistic religions. Jainism and some forms of Buddhism do not advocate belief in gods

Therefore, Wikipedia, and I state that: "Some religions" do not "have atheistic views toward other religions". Some religious people are atheist.

---

To be honest I'm just adding this so people don't forget at this point: "Atheism = lack of belief in God." Fr0d0, 2012.

You didn't say that here:

We [atheists] don't have a unique position on each individual deity. We just have a position on things that haven't been proven to exist, in that unless it is proven to exist we don't have any reason to act like it does.

(repeated on post #53)

And then you went further to define atheism thus:

Atheists don't believe in anything supernatural without proof.

To follow what you claim is the case you'd have to call every single refusal to acknowledge a deity a religious position.

Is it a religious position to not believe in theism as a whole or simply no position for lack of proof?

Based on this I would say Atheism is not a religious position, it is simply a position demanding of concrete evidence regardless of the claim.

Rhythm kindly corrected you:

Atheists can and do believe in all manner of supernatural things while simultaneously remaining atheists. They probably didn't get your memo.

To which you responded with this nonsense:

If you seriously want to use this kind of reasoning then fine. I'm game.
By that same definition Christians are atheists because they don't believe in Allah and Muslims are atheists because they don't believe in Yahweh. The same reasoning can be applied to every single religion in the world.
Well I guess we'd better call everyone an atheist now.
Anyone else get the feeling this is going to get confusing?

None of your definitions of atheism above, you will notice, are actually compatible with the atheism you now define.

Which is why I obliged you with the "true" definition™ (along with an expansion to include all atheist definitions of themselves, but you cherry picked that out).

[Brian37]

Just sayin'



Although I guess I need to clarify :p

Real punk rock, not that typically fake American junk, is not over produced, heavy metal with spiky hair. It's stripped back to the basics, cut off as much as possible from tradition, raw expression of music. Punk rock is taking climax and putting it at the beginning. Having your band photos not go through PhotoShop to remove the not so nice reality.

Atheism is this.

And I think it's a religious endeavour as much as any other, in that it's an honest search for meaning.

It's not Valentines day, but you guys know I love you right?

Atheism is a religion like off is a tv channel.

Individuals in any given group can have a wide range of levels of education and interests. I have met plenty of atheists who don't go any further than "god doesn't exist" and they don't get into the level of debate and activism. that others do.

Atheism should NOT be treated like a religion. We do not pray, we do not have holy houses of worship. We are all individuals and nothing to me should be worshiped like a religion. We are all individuals FIRST, and we have always been the same species no matter our label.

A label will not automatically make an individual do either good or bad.

[fr0d0]

*Off is a TV Channel"

LOL I like that

Wow are you guys hung up on that word. Religion, according to Raphael's research, is the correct word. I don't like the association with it myself, as I've said.

[Reforged]

Given this:

"re·li·gion
noun /riˈlijən/ 
religions, plural

A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance
- consumerism is the new religion

Something that someone ascribes supreme importance to, ie consumerism, = religion

You agreed that atheism can be something that someone could ascribe supreme importance to. (see post #72)
You have therefore said that atheism is a religion.

---

All you've just told me is some religions have atheistic views toward other religions and certain matters.

Let me remind you what you said again
From post #61 above:

Someone who has no Gods and no belief system is someone we cannot class as being part of any religion. So we call them Atheists, period. A religious person can display atheist views toward another religion but not of their own so they would not be called an Atheist.

and what Wikipedia says about Atheism:

Atheism is accepted within some religious and spiritual belief systems, including Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Neopagan movements[17] such as Wicca,[18] and nontheistic religions. Jainism and some forms of Buddhism do not advocate belief in gods

Therefore, Wikipedia, and I state that: "Some religions" do not "have atheistic views toward other religions". Some religious people are atheist.

---

To be honest I'm just adding this so people don't forget at this point: "Atheism = lack of belief in God." Fr0d0, 2012.

You didn't say that here:

We [atheists] don't have a unique position on each individual deity. We just have a position on things that haven't been proven to exist, in that unless it is proven to exist we don't have any reason to act like it does.

(repeated on post #53)

And then you went further to define atheism thus:

Atheists don't believe in anything supernatural without proof.

To follow what you claim is the case you'd have to call every single refusal to acknowledge a deity a religious position.

Is it a religious position to not believe in theism as a whole or simply no position for lack of proof?

Based on this I would say Atheism is not a religious position, it is simply a position demanding of concrete evidence regardless of the claim.

Rhythm kindly corrected you:

Atheists can and do believe in all manner of supernatural things while simultaneously remaining atheists. They probably didn't get your memo.

To which you responded with this nonsense:

If you seriously want to use this kind of reasoning then fine. I'm game.
By that same definition Christians are atheists because they don't believe in Allah and Muslims are atheists because they don't believe in Yahweh. The same reasoning can be applied to every single religion in the world.
Well I guess we'd better call everyone an atheist now.
Anyone else get the feeling this is going to get confusing?

None of your definitions of atheism above, you will notice, are actually compatible with the atheism you now define.

Which is why I obliged you with the "true" definition™ (along with an expansion to include all atheist definitions of themselves, but you cherry picked that out).

"You have therefore said that atheism is a religion."
If I had said consumerism was a religion, sure. We both came to an understanding it wasn't. You can't agree that consumerism isn't a religion but shares qualities with religion then on the other hand decide you're going to state atheism is a religious stance based on the same definition. Thats shamelessly biased. Either both consumerism and atheism are religious stances or neither are. Which is it?

"Therefore, Wikipedia, and I state that: "Some religions" do not "have atheistic views toward other religions". Some religious people are atheist."
We've been over this. Yes people of one religion can show atheism toward another religion but we would not call a member from either religion an atheist. We would class them by what they do believe, not what they do not.
Someone who has no such beliefs to speak of we would call an Atheist.

To be honest I'm just adding this so people don't forget at this point: "Atheism = lack of belief in God." Fr0d0, 2012.

"You didn't say that here:"

We [atheists] don't have a unique position on each individual deity. We just have a position on things that haven't been proven to exist, in that unless it is proven to exist we don't have any reason to act like it does.

There is no conflict here. We lack belief in God therefore we do not have a position on any God to speak of. God is not proven to exists. Neither is the supernatural which directly ties in to God, religion and theism in general.

"And then you went further to define atheism thus:

Atheists don't believe in anything supernatural without proof.

To follow what you claim is the case you'd have to call every single refusal to acknowledge a deity a religious position.

Is it a religious position to not believe in theism as a whole or simply no position for lack of proof?

Based on this I would say Atheism is not a religious position, it is simply a position demanding of concrete evidence regardless of the claim."

Again, no conflict. Atheism does demand proof of any claim made.


"To which you responded with this nonsense:"

If you seriously want to use this kind of reasoning then fine. I'm game.
By that same definition Christians are atheists because they don't believe in Allah and Muslims are atheists because they don't believe in Yahweh. The same reasoning can be applied to every single religion in the world.
Well I guess we'd better call everyone an atheist now.
Anyone else get the feeling this is going to get confusing?

Which part of this doesn't ring true? You've made no attempt to explain why this is nonsense. This is very poor debating.


"None of your definitions of atheism above, you will notice, are actually compatible with the atheism you now define.

Which is why I obliged you with the "true" definition™ (along with an expansion to include all atheist definitions of themselves, but you cherry picked that out)."

None of the statements I have typed on this thread has conflicted with each other or your assertion "Atheism = lack of belief in God." and I challenge you to plainly list the contradictions made. I conclude the only conflict here is between your original statement that Atheism is a religious position and your later statement that "Atheism = lack of belief in God." It is a contradiction you have so far failed even to attempt to explain in any depth what so ever despite having numerous opportunities presented.

[fr0d0]

The fail in that post is so great I cannot bring myself to reply. Raphael it seems you are a twat of proportions greater than I've ever seen. You're a Christian poe right?

[Brian37]

*Off is a TV Channel"

LOL I like that

Wow are you guys hung up on that word. Religion, according to Raphael's research, is the correct word. I don't like the association with it myself, as I've said.

Glad you like it, but that one has been floating around the net for years. I will not claim it as mine.

The other one is "atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color".