Paul's Beliefs

[Drich]

Drich, read my words carefully: Paul did NOT know your version of Jesus. No miracles, parables, life events, prophecies or teachings to be found in the epistles about Jesus.

Paul.did.NOT.know.of.an.EARTHLY.Jesus.

P.r.o.v.e. I.T.

Show me what makes you think this, If it is the one passage in Eph. Then know I have 100 other passages that point to the contary.

So again if you say Paul did not know Christ to be a physical being then Prove your assertion.

Just saying so and have faith that he did not know Christ to be a physical being, does not invalidate what has been written.

Until you acknowledge my argument, all your personal speculations about me being a great 'faith atheist' are absurd and totally ignorant. There is NO REASON to believe Paul spoke of your godman as taking part of history because HE DOES NOT MENTION ANY OF IT.

Until you meet me halfway, consider our discussion over.

The reason this conversation is over is the same reason I can not or rather will not acknoweledge your statement of faith. I will not give any crediablity to the baseless red herring you have been trying to sell. I am not here to chase my tail nor help you to catch your own. If you want to discuss How it is Paul acknowledges Christ then we can start discussing with the 100 passages he Himself left acknoweledging Christ. Otherwise know an arguement based on "I said so" is not something i am willing to discuss.

[Justtristo]

Yes I know those verses in the Epistles like Galatians 4:4

(Galatians 4:4 ESV)

Born of woman? If there have been a historical Jesus which in the time this epistle was asserted as being written (50's AD), there would have been people still alive who would have personally know this Jesus. So making such a statement like this would be unnecessary.

So is it in your Best estimation that the majority of those people who knew of Christ lived in Galatia (Northern turkey 6400+ miles) from jerusalem??? And that paul did have to state that God was born of woman as a living and breathing man because they would have known... 64/65 hundred miles away in a time when people had no way of knowing these kind of things unless someone like Paul Told Them...

Because, there was a mass exodus of believer and witnesses of Christ to Galatia...

Actually the distance between Northern Turkey and what is now Israel was some 800 miles, which your estimate is off by a factor of 8. Also in the Roman Empire (which Galatia was a part of) there was a very good transport network, which allowed a degree of mobility unparalleled until the age of steam ships.

[FallentoReason]

So again if you say Paul did not know Christ to be a physical being then Prove your assertion.

MISSING IN ACTION IN PAUL'S 7 AUTHENTIC EPISTLES:

Miracles
Parables
Birth, Mary and Joseph
The Lord's Prayer
The Transfiguration
The Sermon on the Mount
Sea of Galilee
Temple visit, Nazareth
Pontius Pilate
Judas Iscariot’s betrayal
Gethsemane
Son of Man


PLEASE EXPLAIN

If you feel like Paul not mentioning a thing about your Jesus when the time called for it is a red herring, then so be it. Have faith that the silence is justified somehow (which you STILL have NOT addressed). Pointing to the crucifixion is absolutely meaningless when Jesus literally did 101 other things like prophecies that 'came to pass', which Paul is so ignorant of.

'Jesus was born of a woman'.... great Paul, but why do you fail to mention it was a freaking VIRGIN BIRTH FROM MARY?
'I'm unsure of how to pray'.... Paul wake up and smell the roses.. SERMON ON THE MOUNT?
'The mystery of Christ Jesus this, the mystery of Christ Jesus that'.... Paul, for the love of God, how is an earthly Jesus a mystery to you????? Do you not realise what he taught and did???????

I applaud your faith. In the face of REASONS as to why Paul didn't know of any earthly Jesus you still have faith his ignorance is acceptable. So be it, I honestly don't care anymore. I seriously appreciate you ultimately wanting to help me understand but all you've done thus far is have your fingers in your ears and yell CRUCIFIXION CRUCIFIXION FREAAAAKING CRUCIFIXION. I'm sorry for lashing out like this, but the frustration is too much to take with you.

[Drich]

[Minimalist]

[FallentoReason]

I, Paul, a servant of the newly formed niche market of saviour gods, offer you my personal revelation of Christ Jesus through the OT scriptures and the spirit.

Mark: hmm.. I like this guy's sales pitch. Maybe I can strike up a deal with him for my novel idea? *rings Paul*: Hi, is this Paul the revelation salesman? Yeah, I was just wondering if your saviour could star in my new novel? I want to illustrate how the OT explains the punishment in Jerusalem by YHWH and I thought using Jesus as a vehicle for this would be fantastic. All your customers would be the target audience by the way, so you can have a big cut on sales. Aha.. yep.. aha.. no I understand--spiritu--aha.. yep.. yeah spiritual realm, I know, but you see I'll be referencing the OT, I'm not making it seem like actual history.. aha.. yep.. you're fine with that? Great, I appreciate that Paul! *hangs up*.

Horus: yo, Heracles have you read this new novel??
Heracles: I know right.. our identities have been stolen!
Horus & Heracles: DAD!!!
Osiris: ...and then she took my genit--excuse me Zeus. Yes Son?
Horus: have you seen all the fame we've missed out on?
Heracles: yeah, my twelve awesome works are supposedly dudes now!
Zeus: I know Son. I just finished reading that novel. THEY STOLE OUR THUNDER.

And with that, I end my interest in the ignorant teachings of Christianity, who warped the understanding of their roots to suit their needs.

My discussion style has been compromised as I have lost my cool, which means I've indefinitely been rendered useless to have a constructive discussion. Drich, still feel free to respond to my last post though. I want to see how you dodge the bullets again. I haven't seen the Matrix but I'm convinced your bullet-dodging abilities surpass that of the Matrix, so I don't think I'm missing out at all.

[Drich]

[Undeceived]

[FallentoReason]

[Drich]

Let's address your 'interpertation' of Romans 8:26 first, because it has nothing to do with, Paul not knowing how to pray (as several of your post depend on this statement.)

26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[b] with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.


Paul is teaching if one does not know what to ask for in prayer, the Holy Spirit intercedes. In otherwords He is teaching that prayer is not to be a repetitious chant. (which is also taught be Christ, for the Lord's prayer is not to be a vain excersize in repetition)

The rest of your post tells me you simply do not understand the difference between what an evangelist does in/for the Church, and what someone like Paul (an elder) would do for the church. You seem stuck on the fact that all the church should do is preach the gospel and not engaged in life beyond the life and events surrounding Christ's life. That Christianity has no place in the practical lives of it's established believers beyond establishing and reinforcing the Gospel message, over and over and over again despite how or what it's members struggle with.

That is why I left the passage from Hebrews about milk/meat. When we are young in the faith we need the milk of the word. This amounts to the gospel message, but inorder to grow in our faith we need more than to hear about the life and times of Jesus over and over again. Like 1 cor 7 is about how a Christian should view marriage. Why? Because outside of what Christ said about divorce there is nothing else to go on. The Book of Romans speaks in detail of the nature of Christ sacrifice bought us. Why? Because evidently even though the brothers in Rome have heard the gospel or milk of the word over and over again they were still defaulting to a works based form of righteousness. In short they thought we were to earn Merritt our way to heaven by doing good deeds. Something Christ touched on but did not go into the detail the romes specifically needed to separate their deed from the Grace given by Christ... And on and on to each of the title regions Paul was attributed to writing to.

Paul's role in the Church was not one of an evangelist. (One who spends his time converting new believers) His role was that of an elder. (Meeting the needs of the established Church by taking the message and philosophies that the word and works of Christ affords and applying them to everyday life.) As such the milk or the stuff the noobs need for faith and belief, (all the stuff you are clamoring about) is intentionally set aside inorder to spiritually nourish established believers with spot on spiritual direction and advise.