OK Christians. your chance. Convince me of God.

[Ryantology]

I would say this is again an intellectual argument.

I'd say it would qualify as such for someone in kindergarten.

[pocaracas]

I had that mustard seed for about 10 years of my life. Nothing ever happened, but my knowledge of the world grew and the divergence between the biblical stories and my knowledge of (pre-)history also grew.
I guess you can tell which I found to be more accurate and in conformity with my knowledge of the reality around me.

Mustard seeds can only grow if you plant them. Did you plant yours? if so How?

zen..........
I think the metaphor has reached it's end. Speak in plain terms, no analogies, no comparisons, no metaphors.

I didn't do anything. According to your stories, god speaks to some people. Why not to all? why not to me? Why must I seek him out? Abraham didn't, but god talked directly to him.
Or so the story goes....

My guess is that the story is just a story.
You believe it's a truthful account and become convinced of all those things about your sins.... becoming easier to repent (WTF?) and that "He will show [you] what has to be done to accomplish a given task" (I call that experience).
Why? Why do you believe in such nonsense which is most likely a fabrication of your mind (helped around by the accumulated fabrications of thousands of minds before you)? Why do you assume that a supernatural being exists, when a simple psychological explanation for that effect is at hand? Why? I sincerely cannot understand it.

[Reasonable_Jeff]

Because you are quite new, and actually quite level-headed, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on these prophecies that Christ fulfilled when on the cross:

Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Mark 15:34
...my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
**************************************
Psalm 22:7
All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads.

Mark 15:29
Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads...
**************************************
Psalm 22:18
They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.

Mark 15:24
And they crucified him. Dividing up his clothes, they cast lots to see what each would get.
**************************************

Hopefully you would have gathered that they're not prophecies at all but random details of 'history'.

Speaks for itself really.

Okay, bear with me......I don't get it?

You are asking how Christ's life fulfilled these? You lined them up yourself. The events really did take place as foreshadowed in the Old Testament.

Seems pretty incredible to me....help me out, what am I missing?

[Drich]

zen..........
I think the metaphor has reached it's end. Speak in plain terms, no analogies, no comparisons, no metaphors.

I am using Christ's metaphore about the mustard seed.

Again The mustard seed repersents the smallest amount of faith needed to yeild a result. For the mustard seed was one of the smallest seeds and from it quickly grew a very tall and agressive plant.

I didn't do anything.

Then what are you expecting? God has told you to Ask, seek and knock for Him.

According to your stories, god speaks to some people.

How do you know He has or currently isn't speaking to you now? Just read what you wrote a few quotes down. You are all too egar to dismiss everything as some psycological event. God is the God of the natural/known universe. Why would He only be able to speak or do things in an unknown way?

Why not to all?

Because that would deny you your ablity to choose a fate other than eternal life with God. (self preservation)

why not to me?

Because you did/Do nothing to seek Him out.

Why must I seek him out?

Because you have been commanded to do so. God is not a buddy of yours, He's not your friend He is Lord and Master of all of creation and He has demanded that you seek Him out.

Abraham didn't, but god talked directly to him.
Or so the story goes....

Actually Genesis has a different account. Abram was told to leave his home his 'comfort zone.' and Go out into the unknown, and he did all based on some promises he had no 'evidence' in backing up. You and he are in the same situation. The reason abram is now known as Abraham is held in high regaurd with God and his people is because he obeyed his God. While you do nothing and wait for God to serve you.

My guess is that the story is just a story.
You believe it's a truthful account and become convinced of all those things about your sins.... becoming easier to repent (WTF?) and that "He will show [you] what has to be done to accomplish a given task" (I call that experience).

So if I want to say open my own company and employ a bunch of people grow it to the point where it makes tons of money, make contacts and do business all over the world, and yet have no experience in doing any of those things, and then I see a list of sins (that at the time don't seem to have anything to do with anything else, certainly nothing to do with running a company) and I work on those 'religious things' yet things like a business man that i only met one time in passing out of the blue gives me 25K to start my company (while I was working for someone else) or the fact that bids and contracts just so happen to fall to me, that is experience?

one time we need money, i saw a whole host of questions that need to be answered on this board and i answer them. rather than go out and sell. Because something told me this is what I needed to do. (counter my experience) Then we got some big on line order (off a web site google doesn't even list on the first 10 pages of a search even if you put our company name in the search), from some south american country... is what you call experience? Perhaps it is. Perhaps after ten years of experiencing this kind of thing i am well "experienced" and somehow are making things happen by prayer and following the bread crumbs that i have been left to follow. Even though my intincts tell me to do other things.

Why? Why do you believe in such nonsense which is most likely a fabrication of your mind (helped around by the accumulated fabrications of thousands of minds before you)?

Because for the last 10 or so years I have been wandering the wilderness spiritually speaking and found God apart from any one's effort or help.

Why do you assume that a supernatural being exists, when a simple psychological explanation for that effect is at hand? Why? I sincerely cannot understand it.

Do you want to?
Then ask God to show you.

[System of Solace]

Why do you assume that a supernatural being exists, when a simple psychological explanation for that effect is at hand? Why? I sincerely cannot understand it.

Do you want to?
Then ask God to show you.

Because that has totally worked before.

Seriously, you spent your ENTIRE post saying "Find God seek him out yourself you're lazy". I wonder how many millions of people have done that and came up with nothing?

[Mystic]

Why not just do it?

Deist version of prayer:

O God, if you answer prayers which I don't think you do for various reasons
And if Christianity is true, which I don't think is true for various reasons
Then Guide me to it.
And if any religion is true.
Then Guide me to it.
Amen.

Atheist version of prayer:

O God, if you exist while I don't think you do
And if you answer prayers which I don't think you would if you existed
And if Christianity is true, which I don't think is true for various reasons
Then Guide me to it.
And if any religion is true.
Then Guide me to it.
Amen.

It doesn't hurt.

[Cyberman]

Do we need to customise the prayer for each of the thousands of gods on record? It might hurt to piss off the wrong ones.

[System of Solace]

Atheist version of prayer:

O God, if you exist while I don't think you do
And if you answer prayers which I don't think you would if you existed
And if Christianity is true, which I don't think is true for various reasons
Then Guide me to it.
And if any religion is true.
Then Guide me to it.
Amen.

It doesn't hurt.

Didn't work. Any suggestions, Drich?

[The Grand Nudger]

Another argument in Quran is this:

1) If it were from other then God, people would find in it much contradictions.
2) People haven't found contradictions.
3) Therefore it is from God.

A valid argument, but I would say both premise 1 and 2 is definitely wrong.

LOL, no, it isn't.

[Mystic]

Another argument in Quran is this:

1) If it were from other then God, people would find in it much contradictions.
2) People haven't found contradictions.
3) Therefore it is from God.

A valid argument, but I would say both premise 1 and 2 is definitely wrong.

LOL, no, it isn't.

Valid doesn't mean sound.

For example

If I eat oranges, it means I am a dog.
I eat oranges.
Therefore I am a dog.

Is a valid argument but it's not sound.

The argument is valid:

(a) Book From God
(b) people would find in book Contradictions

Not A -> B
Not B
Therefore A.

Not A -> B = Not B -> A

It's not sound argument, but it's a valid argument.