Ex Theists

[Kyuuketsuki]

Your angry atheist stance seems to mean beyond reason. I've been violently (in feeling, not in action coz It's not my nature) anti theist but I put that down to personal issues rather than logic. I've loved agruing theists as an atheist, nothing gave me more pleasure. I never wanted to be nasty with that (not suggesting you do), just logically coherent and arguing in a way that theists couldn't answer in their own logic. The mind fuck aspect is very interesting to me, although I consider myself pure rationalist over philosophical or superstitious, to qualify that.

So you've posted as an atheist much as you do here as a theist before? Where?

I am angrier now (much less tolerant of stupidity), much more than militant as I was then!

More than anything I STILL hate the hypocrisy in Church life. I can't stand it and come out spitting on the rare occasion I get duped into it.

I can't stand the hypocrisy of theists.

Kyu

[fr0d0]

So you've posted as an atheist much as you do here as a theist before? Where?

Erm... nowhere Does that prove something?

I am angrier now (much less tolerant of stupidity), much more than militant as I was then!

I think that's a shame. I always try to accommodate the stupid as much as I can. Militancy = fundamentalism in my book. fundie is bad whatever persuasion IMO.

[Edwardo Piet]

Belief is necessarily a choice, so I don't get you there. You don't just wander into it. It's a definite change of mind from one state to another. There's no inbetween "yes there is a god" and "no there isn't". "I don't know" is still not "yes there is". (I could quote bible on yo ass but Iz too nice for that )

It's not a choice because you're either convinced or unconvinced. And you don't get a "choice" in that convincing. You are compelled by your experience.

If you see a truck coming towards you, just you try not believing you'll get hit if you don't move. If you don't see such a truck, just try genuinely convincing yourself that there is one without self-denial.

You are compelled by your experience.

EvF

[fr0d0]

Ah ..existentialist shite

So of course that means there is rational proof for belief in God.

[Kyuuketsuki]

So you've posted as an atheist much as you do here as a theist before? Where?

Erm... nowhere Does that prove something?

But Frodo you said, "I've loved agruing theists as an atheist, nothing gave me more pleasure." and only 2 years ago too ... surely you must have posted the odd snippet, as part of "your pleasure" somewhere?

Or maybe it's just that little bit more likely that you were just playing at being an atheist and not really one at all? Or maybe even you are just lying to suit whatever twisted aim you have right now?

Kyu

[Edwardo Piet]

Hmm...unless he argued with theists offline.

EvF

[Kyuuketsuki]

Hmm...unless he argued with theists offline.

You think that's likely? Forums like these have been going since ... what? 10 years or more ago! He's computer literate, he's motivated and I cannot see why he wouldn't (if he was being genuine) be as likely to post about his claimed atheism as about his theism.

But more telling is the fact that every single time a theist claims this kind of thing they are NEVER able to substantiate it! It doesn't prove they aren't but it builds up an impression about the disingenuous little fucks!

Kyu

[Edwardo Piet]

Trying to think of a possible alternative

EvF

[fr0d0]

I operated in the real world back then. You remember actual conversations don't you? Sending 5 1/4 floppy disks by post wasn't condusive to much more than "hey, got any good programs to swap?". I bow to your geekery Kyu.

No, I accosted people in the street. Various nutty flavours of the door to door variety. Vicars and professionals I'd meet. After resigning from a church you can imagine the even richer pickings. I'd consider online badgering possibly tame next to that. My meaty morsels were usually live bait confined.

I did participate in a very long thread between myself and a strange person on Beliefnet a few years ago. I was relating spiritual experience and they were talking about speaking to me in my dreams. Atheism takes many forms of course. As we see on here.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

You are compelled by your experience.

Very Jungian and I think correct, "you" meaning "we".

Jung argued that our most powerful beliefs are the result of direct experiences. I don't conflate that with evidence necessarily. For the atheist like myself,I think it can be the experience of realising there IS no evidence,and that can be pretty cathartic.

I do not accept that metaphysical arguments can be resolved by logic.My reasoning is that the proofs cannot be demonstrated. IE so far arguments about the existence of God and free will for example are unprovable and unfaslifiable. I don't claim to be a philsopher, so concede my reasoning may be flawed.