the wife beating verse

[Al-Fatihah]

If it isn't abuse, then why is it that "NO PERSON" (not even the most hardened, toughest person on earth) can be subjected to it?

Response: Because it's human nature to be deeply annoyed by unwanted touching of any kind.

Nor is the definition of dying "being strapped to a nuclear bomb and shot into the sun", but I bet you'd be dying now wouldn't you?

Response: Boh dying and the exammple above carry the same definition of losing life. Constantly being tapped and abuse is not synonymous in any manner. So your point is pointless.

[Waratah]

I have already DEBUNKED your "repeated tapping" reasoning.
Since you are either too stupid or too lazy to actually read my post here you go

Just to make sure here is the question again(This will make it 3 times in 1 post)

If the beating is NOT harmful or ABUSIVE then what is the point or goal?

Response: And once again, no person can subject themselves to being repeatedly tapped. Therefore, acting out such discipline can influence a person to change their ways. Nor did you refute anything, as the definition of abuse is not "constantly being tapped" in any dictionary. Dummy. Debunked as usual.

and I have bolded and underlined relevant parts below to make it easier for you to understand.

Definition of ABUSE
1: a corrupt practice or custom
2: improper or excessive use or treatment : misuse <drug abuse>
3:obsolete : a deceitful act : deception
4: language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily
5: physical maltreatment
 
Examples of ABUSE

He subjected his wife to physical and emotional abuse.
the buying of votes and other election abuses
She was subjected to every term of abuse her boss could think of.
a torrent of verbal abuse
The prisoner hurled abuse at the judge.

Here are some suggested responses to my question:
- I do not know, I'm confused now.
- I see your point now, your right the only way it could work is through harm or abuse. What else is wrong with my thinking.
- I am in denial and I can't think for myself so your wrong again.

[Darkstar]

Here are some suggested responses to my question:
- I do not know, I'm confused now.
- I see your point now, your right the only way it could work is through harm or abuse. What else is wrong with my thinking.
- I am in denial and I can't think for myself so your wrong again.

No...don't pick number three.

[Al-Fatihah]

Response: And once again, no person can subject themselves to being repeatedly tapped. Therefore, acting out such discipline can influence a person to change their ways. Nor did you refute anything, as the definition of abuse is not "constantly being tapped" in any dictionary. Dummy. Debunked as usual.

LINK TO DEFINITION and I have bolded and underlined relevant parts below to make it easier for you to understand.

Definition of ABUSE
1: a corrupt practice or custom
2: improper or excessive use or treatment : misuse <drug abuse>
3:obsolete : a deceitful act : deception
4: language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily
5: physical maltreatment
 
Examples of ABUSE

He subjected his wife to physical and emotional abuse.
the buying of votes and other election abuses
She was subjected to every term of abuse her boss could think of.
a torrent of verbal abuse
The prisoner hurled abuse at the judge.

Here are some suggested responses to my question:
- I do not know, I'm confused now.
- I see your point now, your right the only way it could work is through harm or abuse. What else is wrong with my thinking.
- I am in denial and I can't think for myself so your wrong again.

Response: The definition of maltreatment isn't "constantly being tapped" according to the very definitions you provided, thus debunking yourself again. Thanks for the assistance.

[Waratah]

LINK TO DEFINITION and I have bolded and underlined relevant parts below to make it easier for you to understand.
Here are some suggested responses to my question:
- I do not know, I'm confused now.
- I see your point now, your right the only way it could work is through harm or abuse. What else is wrong with my thinking.
- I am in denial and I can't think for myself so your wrong again.

Response: The definition of maltreatment isn't "constantly being tapped" according to the very definitions you provided, thus debunking yourself again. Thanks for the assistance.

You sir are an idiot. If you cannot see your errors then there really is little hope for you(but I suspect you are just being a )

PS Why do you continue to type response in your posts. I am positive no one is thinking you are not responding to there posts.

[paulpablo]

Jesus was born mature, according to many Christians.

Jesus fed the 5000, walked on water, came back from the dead, healed the blind, was born of a virgin and all that sort of stuff according to many christians. Also which christians state jesus was born mature, physically and mentally?
i remember from my days of school singing songs about jesus the part which goes "the little baby jesus no crying he made" but thats the only reference i can remember to any suggestion that jesus was born mentally mature.

---

I don't think it's so bad, to be honest. In some cultures, namely... ones with arranged marriages, it is largely accepted. It all depends upon context, all of it.

I cant think of any possible context where somone whos over 40 having sex with a 9 year old isnt sickening, it sickens me a bit more in the context of an arranged marriage.
I know it was more culturally exceptable back then but i dont care in the slightest because i like to think i have better moral values than an arab born over 1500 years ago.

[Al-Fatihah]

You sir are an idiot. If you cannot see your errors then there really is little hope for you(but I suspect you are just being a )

PS Why do you continue to type response in your posts. I am positive no one is thinking you are not responding to there posts.

Response: Yet the fact that your idiocy keeps being refuted shows otherwise. Dummy.

[The Grand Nudger]

Do islam a favor and let somebody else argue for it...lol.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

Al Fatihah has answered the issue perfectly.

Verses from the Quran condoning wife beating:

Surah 2:231
"....Do not retain them(i.e., your wives) to harm them..."

Surah 4:128
"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do."

This verse states that if a women fears cruelty she can seek for divorce.

Surah 4:19
"on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good."
That you should treat them with kindness and equity.


Verses from the Hadiths condoning wife beating:

Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 2138:
Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Haydah: I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her.

Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 2139:
Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.

Here the prophet states that when asked how should we treat our wives? He replied feed them, cloth them, do not beat them, and be kind to them(do not revile them).

Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 68:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam'a: The Prophet forbade laughing at a person who passes wind, and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?"
Here the prophet questions how people can beat there wives as they beat there camels. Showing a disgust towards wife beating.

Muslim, Book 009, Number 3526:
Fatima bint Qais reported that her husband divorced her with three, pronouncements and Allah's Messenger made no provision for her lodging and maintenance allowance. She (further said): Allah's Messenger said to me: When your period of 'Idda is over, inform me. So I informed him. (By that time) Mu'awiya, Abu Jahm and Usama b. Zaid had given her the proposal of marriage. Allah's Messenger said: So far as Mu'awiya is concerned, he is a poor man without any property. So far as Abu Jahm is concerned, he is a great beater of women, but Usama b. Zaid. she pointed with her hand (that she did not approve of the idea of marrying) Usama. But Allah's Messenger said: Obedience to Allah and obedience to His Messenger is better for thee. She said: So I married him, and I became an object of envy.

Muslim, Book 009, Number 3527:
Fatima bint Qais reported: My husband Abu 'Amr b. Hafs b. al-Mughira sent 'Ayyish b. Abu Rabi'a to me with a divorce, and he also sent through him five si's of dates and five si's of barley. I said: Is there no maintenance allowance for me but only this, and I cannot even spend my 'Idda period in your house? He said: No. She said: I dressed myself and came to Allah's Messenger. He said: How many pronouncements of divorce have been made for you? I said: Three. He said what he ('Ayyish b. Abu Rabi'a) had stated was true. There is no maintenance allowance for you. Spend 'Idda period in the house of your cousin, Ibn Umm Maktum. He is blind and you can put off your garment in his presence. And when you have spent your Idda period, you inform me. She said: Mu'awiya and Abu'l-Jahm were among those who had given me the proposal of marriage. Thereupon Allah's Apostle said: Mu'awiya is destitute and in poor condition and Abu'l-Jahm is very harsh with women (or he beats women), you should take Usama b. Zaid (as your husband).

In these two hadith's a women has recently got divorced and seeks a new husband. She has two candidates and asks the prophet for advice. One is poor and the other a "Wife beater". He tells her to marry another person. NOT the wife beater. Showing a negative viewpoint on wife beaters.

The prophet never beat or hit any of his wives. And as he is an example for Muslims we should follow the example he set of treating women kindly and not beating them or harming them.

Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) said: "Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah. Al-Albaanee graded it Saheeh.]

Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah. And he was never given the option between two things except that the most beloved of the two to him was the easiest of them, as long as it did not involve sin. If it did involve sin, then he stayed farther away from sin than any of the people. He would not avenge himself concerning anything that was done to him, except if the limits of Allah were transgressed. Then, in that case he would avenge for the sake of Allah.''

As muslims we have to follow the example of the prophet (who never beat his wives !)

"You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day and who remember Allah much" Surah Ahzab [33:21]

Abu Hurayra stated, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'The most perfect of believers in belief is the best of them in character. The best of you are those who are the best to their women.'" [at-Tirmidhi]

Hadith quoted in Imam Ghazzali's Ihya Ulum-Id-Din, Marriage section:
“The most perfect of believers in faith are those who are the finest in manners and most gentle toward their wives.”

Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "A believing man should not hate a believing woman. If he dislikes something in her character, he should be pleased with some other ­ or another­ trait of hers." [Muslim]

Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Treat women well. Woman was created from a rib. The most crooked part of the rib is the top part. If you try to straighten it, you will break it. If you leave it, it remains crooked. So treat women well."

Scholars translate the word in question in 4:34 "idriboo" / ٱضْرِبُو for which the Arabic root is Dad-Ra-Ba (ض ر ب) as strike lightly. Due to the numerous verses from the Quran and the hadiths showing that you cannot beat, harm or mistreat your wives, this strike is a tap that doesn't cause any physical injury and isnt on the face. As explained by Al Fatihah:
"As for hitting the wife, verse 34 does allow hitting the wife as a disciplinary act by the husband if she disobeys the protection provided by the husband (such as allowing his enemies in the home, using the money he provides to financially stabilize the family for her own personal gain, etc.,) yet as verse 19 demonstrates, women are to be treated with kindness. Thus the hit should not be abusive or painful. The sunnah of the prophet states that when asked of what force to beat a women, the prophet displays the bristles of a toothbrush, demonstrating how light the hit must be."

In short the "daraba" is a light tap for example tapping with a miswak (toothstick). Nothing that can cause harm or "wife beating". The question has arose well hows that gonna work. I think as al fatihah explained, it's annoying. But also that it is symbolic, as it is the last step before they would go to the courts as verse 35 states to do, meaning that the female would realize that the court is going to get involved and could lead to divorce.

I think clearly from the above stated Hadith and Qur'an verses that wife beating is haram.

[Darkstar]

Response: Yet the fact that your idiocy keeps being refuted shows otherwise. Dummy.

Response: Yet the fact that your idiocy keeps being refuted shows otherwise. Dummy.

If it isn't abuse, then why is it that "NO PERSON" (not even the most hardened, toughest person on earth) can be subjected to it?

Response: Because it's human nature to be deeply annoyed by unwanted touching of any kind.

Response: Boh dying and the exammple above carry the same definition of losing life. Constantly being tapped and abuse is not synonymous in any manner. So your point is pointless.

an·noy
[uh-noi]

verb
1.
to disturb or bother (a person) in a way that displeases, troubles, or slightly irritates.

2.
to molest; harm.

Bolding mine. Are you really trying to argue that the qur'an says "tap your wife until she loses it and obeys you"?/rhetorical