Jesus, Least Fit Moral Judge

[FallentoReason]

[Gambit]

You do realize Drich that the "work" you do here only serves to further damage the reputation of your precious savior. You do realize this right?

Jesus (the version that you believe walked the earth) has got to absolutely despise you by now.
Your responses are borderline nauseating at this point. I honestly think you have done far more to discredit your religion than I did in studying it's true history.

I second that; he practically turned me into a satanist (Of the 14 year old emo variety). I don't even believe in Satan, I just wanted to worship someone who was infinitely kinder than Yawnway.

[Norfolk And Chance]

I just think he's has a ridiculously inflated sense of the importance of his own opinion.

[Drich]

[Jackie]

[Ryantology]

I am trying to help you make a firm desision as to where you stand with God.

We all stand in same place with God. It is exactly the same place in which we stand with Mickey Mouse, Harry Potter and the Super Mario Bros.

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Actually no. God allowed it to happen Adam made it possiable.

Actually, yes. The conditions for the original sin were put into place by God. He made the tree from which they weren't supposed to eat, and he made Eve gullible. He also made the serpent who charmed her. Didn't God make everything?

No I agree. For Sin allows Choice. For if there was no sin there would only be the Expressed Will of God. With sin we have been given the ablity to choose God's expressed will or our own.

Why were we given that ability, when the Bible makes it clear that God hates it when we express our own will? Why would he give us the option to disobey if he didn't want us to disobey, and would hand down harsh punishments for disobedience?

That's like putting one training wheel on your kid's bike, and blaming him when he falls over.

Again by orginal design we were without sin. God gave us the choice to sin in the garden, and outside of the garden He gives us the choice of redemption. We did not always have sin, but we have always been given a choice.

If God gave us that choice, then it can only he his fault that we choose it.

When you you guys understand? The point is not to avoid sin, but to seek attonement for it.

Why should we atone for something we can't avoid doing? Why should we be sorry to God when it's his fault we're made this way?

Again no we were orginally designed to be perfect, and we were for some time. We were designed to choose to either be with God or eternally seperated from him.

If a design fails, by definition it is not perfect. If God is perfect, then the failure of humanity was intentional.

In order to choose we must have options. in this life we have been given the ablity to choose God's will for us or to remain apart from God. Don't think of it as sin in the traditional sense. Your choice to remain away from God is what this life and subsequently sin is all about. Sin is not nessarily evil, is is a willful expression to be outside of what God wants for you. At it's core Sin is a choice or option given to us.

Why should I be sorry for breaking arbitrary rules? Why should I want a relationship with a God who makes rules I can't follow and expects me to atone for it?

It is, what it is. Who am I to hide from or try and excuse what God has done? If He wanted this stuff to be unknown then He certainly could have lost the records long before I came along. No, this stuff is in there for a reason. That reason is to help you 'good' people to make a choice about God. In order to make a choice you must have a complete understanding of His nature. The only question is will you see how trivial judging God by a 'moral' standard is, and seek to understand why He did what He did, or will you stand behind the morality that allows you to live your lives justifing the way you want to live, and use it to condemn God?

I judge God by 'moral' standards because I see no reason to accept your assumption that God's standards are better than mine.

[Jackie]

I am trying to help you make a firm desision as to where you stand with God.

No you are not. You are setting us up in your own mind so you can have some false sense of superiority.

And as he already stated rightfully, we put your comic book work of fiction in with all other myths.

[Hoc est Corpus]

I think the problem with this argument is that you are boxing God into a time frame. You are saying there is evil in the world - why doesn't God put an end to it? We are, however, assuming that God is real, and that he says he is who he says he is. This means that God has created space-time itself, and he is outside of time. I would argue that because God is outside of time, from God's point of view evil entered the universe and he defeated it at the same "time". How can you judge God while only looking at the past/present?

[Drich]

I am trying to help you make a firm desision as to where you stand with God.

No you are not. You are setting us up in your own mind so you can have some false sense of superiority.

How could this be true if i have openly admitted to be as sinful as anyone here?

I have said this at least 15 times in this thread. The only difference between any of you an me is i sought the attonemnt offered by Christ. That however does not make me any better or more deserving. Just compliant.

[Ryantology]

It has nothing to do with time. How can evil exist unless God makes evil?