Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 12:51 am

Poll: Do you want the UK to leave the EU?
This poll is closed.
Yes
15.00%
3 15.00%
No
35.00%
7 35.00%
I am not a Brit but would like them to stay
25.00%
5 25.00%
Not a Brit but would like them to go
25.00%
5 25.00%
Total 20 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Britain leaving the EU
#11
RE: Britain leaving the EU
I'd vote to leave the EU, mainly because of the reasons Ace has already stated. I have no fundamental objections to the EU in general, but it should operate more like the United Nations than what it is now (which is basically one big European government).

(January 29, 2013 at 10:49 pm)HorribleOffensiveScouser91 Wrote: I am a Brit and a Politics student. I, like most lower class Brits, know that Britain leaving the EU is ridiculous, we would be nothing but a small floating island with no friends. We DO NOT have the resources like America, Russia etc to be an independent nation, we are a tiny island.
The idea that nobody would trade with us if we were out of the EU is quite frankly ridiculous.
Reply
#12
RE: Britain leaving the EU
I'm not going to pretend I know much about the pros and cons, but leaving the EU does seem like a backward step to me. I much rather prefer the idea of Europe being united than divided. But I think I'm thinking in a very basic sense, and it's obvious that the way certain things work as they are at the minute are not ideal. I also agree with much of what Ace says, but we don't necessarily have to leave the EU to change some of those things in my opinion.
Reply
#13
RE: Britain leaving the EU
(January 29, 2013 at 7:22 pm)Insanity x Wrote: * Insanity x shrugs his shoulders

I don't really pay attention to these things.. I probably should but I don't.

Same. Kinda.

I live in the US so, naturally, I'm much more concerned with what happens with the United States. Our general foreign policy can be sumed up with two sentences: "Fuck what other nations are doing and fuck what works! I'm doing my own thing!" We don't want to work with other nations as much as we want to get them to work under us. So when I see another nation that may be taking baby steps away from the international community, it worries me some that our particular brand of stupidity is spreading.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto

"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
Reply
#14
RE: Britain leaving the EU
(January 30, 2013 at 7:45 am)Ace Otana Wrote: Actually we gave them many of our resources. We don't actually have any say on who we trade with. Did you know we have to leave the room and let Brussels arrange who we trade with? Look at our economy, it's collapsing. Look at Spain and Greece, unemployment is enormous. We have no control. Another 29 million foreigners are now able to walk in.
How can things be any worse for us if we left?


I dont really understand what you mean with resources.

Do you mean natural, financial or other resources?

Poland is about to privatise massive new found gasfields in the west of it`s country whilest it`s low taxrates have created a boom in the opening of new buisnesses in the past 10-5 years, France has completly nationalised it`s energy sector since the 60s aswell as it is a known fact that 2 thirds of the french workforce work for the state and it has ignored every single suggestion by the economists and other nations to open that sector to the privat market, Germany has completly privatised it`s energy and financial sector and has partialy privatised it`s public transportation and healthcare sector, and Austria is about to nationalise it`s natural water supplies and make the access to clean drinking water a constitutional right.
So from my obseration: the Eu does not have the capacities and instruments to get involved into a nations handling of it`s economical and natural resources.

Financialy? Well every EU member has to pay a fee into a central European cashpot (European central Bank) these funds are then used to finance European interests and are invested into buisnesses and inferstructure in the poorest regions of the EU, which helped Poland boom, in the case of Germany is mostly the east, in the case of Italy the south, in the Case of the UK Scotland and the north of England and in the case of Rumania and Bulgaria various regions.
This also creates rather paradox situations, since the poorest region of France is French Guinea in South America, which receives EU cash in form of investments, dispite the fact that it is one of the richest regions in South America.
Investment are and will be going to Portugal and Spain aswell probably.
And due to the recent financial crisis the central bank gives loans to Greece and stands as a international guaranter for greece`s financial stability.


Quote:Norway was smart enough not to give away its resources to the EU.

Bad example.

Norway follows every single bit of EU legislation created in the EU parlament despite not being a member. It is also part of the trade treaty, meaning that it will probably join in in a few years.


Quote:That's dictatorship. The government is supposed to be the voice of the people, not it's masters. This isn't the soviet union. Obviously the people knew best, we never should of joined the EU.

People weren`t given the vote on the abolishment of the death penalty, equal rights for women and the decriminalisation of homosexuality in the 20`s to the 60`s in all countries throughout Europe, although it was well known that public opinion was against such messures, up to 60 percent in Germany and even more in France and the UK. Read that in a study on the limitations of total democracy.
It also gives the example that Swizerland was the last country to give equal rights to women, the last country to decriminalise homosexuality and the last country to abolish the death penalty in 1989 in Europe (Although technicaly speaking I left out all eastern European countries which still had the death penalty after the east block fell appart)
Swizerland also forced women to have an abortion and be steralised who would have had a child out of wedlock up until the 1970s.
Ironicaly, these inhumane things wouldnt have been legal there for such a long time if their democracy was less direct and if they would have joined the EU. But instead they prefer to launder the mobs money and support organised crime in Europe.

So, were gay rights made legal, women given equal rights and the death penalty abolished in countries accross Europe against populat support because these countries were dictatorships?


Quote:At least UKIP has a back bone. If the people ask for a referendum, for the sake of democracy, you're supposed to give such a referendum. It's called freedom, democracy. For the government to say no, we'll do this and you must obey, that's a dictatorship.

I dont know much about Ukip, but when it comes to elections I have a moral priciple to follow for myself.
Meaning that I put social values above economic messures and other promisses.

Meaning, I dont vote for parties which have homophobic, racist, antisemetic, fashist, nationalistic, religious or sexist programs in their party book.
And if I cant vote in the country where these parties are on the ballot, I will object and protest them.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/04/27/uki...ht-people/

Oh dear.

(January 30, 2013 at 8:42 am)Tiberius Wrote: I'd vote to leave the EU, mainly because of the reasons Ace has already stated. I have no fundamental objections to the EU in general, but it should operate more like the United Nations than what it is now (which is basically one big European government).

Oh yeah, and the idea that nobody would trade with us if we were out of the EU is quite frankly ridiculous.

I didn`t say "no one" would trrade with you. (but you seem to enjoy to disingeniusly twisting words to make people look as if they said something they didn`t).

I simply stated that 53% of your exports go to the rest of Europe because of the European free trade treaty which forbbids the taxation and tolls on products traded by European countries with European countries.

If you leave, that treaty no longer effects you. Meaning that taxes and tolls would imideatly fall on all products from the UK imported into EU countries. Then a new trade treaty would have to be negotiated by your goverment - not with the EU - but with every single member state of the EU to which your country would plan to export, this would be a enormous diplomatic effort (after destroying years of previous diplomatic work) which isn`t made easier by the fact that you would want to trade with exactly the same set of countries who`s treaties on free trade you had just previously rejected.
Thus foreign companies in your country, such as Toyota will most likely move it`s production to a EU country.
There is a reason why regions within Europe which want independence want to enter as a EU member nation (Scotland, Basklands, Flandern, Catalonia), it is because of the free trade agreements that union has to offer.

Sure non EU nations will still trade with you and leaving the EU will not impact that significantly. But since 53% of the UK`s exports go to EU countries, that part of the UK`s economy will have a enrmous disadvantage towards those who produce the same products within the EU, or outside the EU and have already existing trade treaties with the European nations.

Meaning that it would never in any way benifit your economy.
It would simply stay the same in case the entire union would collapse.

Now, this was a very detailed explaination even a 15 year old would understand. And "this is rediculous" doesnt provide any facts which would contradict that, neighter would it magicaly call trade treaties with every single EU nation into existance nore will it find new customers for the 53% of your exports which would fall away since competition would have a benefit to sell it`s products through the already existing treaties.
Reply
#15
RE: Britain leaving the EU
(January 30, 2013 at 7:16 am)Ace Otana Wrote:
(January 30, 2013 at 7:05 am)Zone Wrote: I don't see how we would be any better off out of the EU. So some of our laws are made in Brussels, it makes no difference to me whether it's Brussels or London. You could say I didn't vote for them but I didn't vote for the Conservatives either.

We'd have control over our trade and borders for one. The British people never voted to join the EU, the corrupt government joined the EU without our vote. We had no say in the matter, that's dictatorship, not democracy. Undecided

Could you point out the corrupt government you are referring to, names please, and the years this corruption supposedly happened.

Also, what is corruption?
Reply
#16
RE: Britain leaving the EU
Quote:I dont really understand what you mean with resources.

Do you mean natural, financial or other resources?
Both. For example we've given around 70% of our fish market to the EU.
Quote:Poland is about to privatise massive new found gasfields in the west of it`s country whilest it`s low taxrates have created a boom in the opening of new buisnesses in the past 10-5 years, France has completly nationalised it`s energy sector since the 60s aswell as it is a known fact that 2 thirds of the french workforce work for the state and it has ignored every single suggestion by the economists and other nations to open that sector to the privat market, Germany has completly privatised it`s energy and financial sector and has partialy privatised it`s public transportation and healthcare sector, and Austria is about to nationalise it`s natural water supplies and make the access to clean drinking water a constitutional right.
So from my obseration: the Eu does not have the capacities and instruments to get involved into a nations handling of it`s economical and natural resources.
Sounds nice, however the reality of the situation is much different. Economic collapse is what's happening. Do I have to drag you through a few towns and cities to see it for yourself?
Can you tell me the benefit of adding 29 million foreigners to a country that already has huge unemployment levels? Can you tell me the benefit of this country no longer trading largely to the commonwealth? Can you tell me the benefit of giving resources to the EU?

Quote:Financialy? Well every EU member has to pay a fee into a central European cashpot (European central Bank) these funds are then used to finance European interests and are invested into buisnesses and inferstructure in the poorest regions of the EU, which helped Poland boom, in the case of Germany is mostly the east, in the case of Italy the south, in the Case of the UK Scotland and the north of England and in the case of Rumania and Bulgaria various regions.
Doesn't appear to be working... Undecided

Quote:Investment are and will be going to Portugal and Spain aswell probably.

Another bailout? Can the other EU countries afford this? In this economic climate? Have you asked the people of those countries( the ones paying for this) if they're happy with this?

Quote:Norway follows every single bit of EU legislation created in the EU parlament despite not being a member. It is also part of the trade treaty, meaning that it will probably join in in a few years.
Then it's news to me. And farewell to their economy if what you're saying is true.
Quote:People weren`t given the vote on the abolishment of the death penalty, equal rights for women and the decriminalisation of homosexuality in the 20`s to the 60`s in all countries throughout Europe, although it was well known that public opinion was against such messures, up to 60 percent in Germany and even more in France and the UK. Read that in a study on the limitations of total democracy.
It also gives the example that Swizerland was the last country to give equal rights to women, the last country to decriminalise homosexuality and the last country to abolish the death penalty in 1989 in Europe (Although technicaly speaking I left out all eastern European countries which still had the death penalty after the east block fell appart)
Swizerland also forced women to have an abortion and be steralised who would have had a child out of wedlock up until the 1970s.
Ironicaly, these inhumane things wouldnt have been legal there for such a long time if their democracy was less direct and if they would have joined the EU. But instead they prefer to launder the mobs money and support organised crime in Europe.

So, were gay rights made legal, women given equal rights and the death penalty abolished in countries accross Europe against populat support because these countries were dictatorships?
You're talking about human rights, bit different from forcing a free nation to join the EUSSR. The majority wanted us to stay out of the EU, still do. The French voted no on EU, the EU demanded another vote. The EU has resulted to bullying, same with Greece, Ireland. A lot of people in these countries don't want to be part of the EU. Start a poll in Greece or Spain, see what you get. Ask the people if they voted to join the EU and if they want to leave it. Will you allow them a referendum or deny them it?

Quote:Meaning, I dont vote for parties which have homophobic, racist, antisemetic, fashist, nationalistic, religious or sexist programs in their party book.
And if I cant vote in the country where these parties are on the ballot, I will object and protest them.
UKIP isn't racist, I'm not sure it has nothing to do with homophobia or sexism.
Many UKIP members were once conservative, they split off and formed their own political group in response to the EU. Stating that joining it was unfair, undemocratic and that we should be allowed a referendum, for which I support.
If UKIP gives us a referendum, that's a step in the right direction. I won't vote for Lab, Lib or Con. They've shown how corrupt they are.

http://youtu.be/kM8mMQ6l47I?t=38s
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
Reply
#17
RE: Britain leaving the EU
(January 30, 2013 at 10:44 am)Ace Otana Wrote:
Quote:I dont really understand what you mean with resources.

Do you mean natural, financial or other resources?
Both. For example we've given around 70% of our fish market to the EU.

I saw a couple of interviews recently with people in the fishing business here and they said that it would be terrible for their business if Britain left the EU. They were saying that they needed the EU to thrive, but I guess there might be others who think differently... I dunno.

I'll try and find the videos.
Cunt
Reply
#18
RE: Britain leaving the EU
(January 30, 2013 at 11:03 am)frankiej Wrote:
(January 30, 2013 at 10:44 am)Ace Otana Wrote: Both. For example we've given around 70% of our fish market to the EU.

I saw a couple of interviews recently with people in the fishing business here and they said that it would be terrible for their business if Britain left the EU. They were saying that they needed the EU to thrive, but I guess there might be others who think differently... I dunno.

I'll try and find the videos.

That's possible, the fish market is being given to the EU, wouldn't think it would affect those who fish, just the nation's economy.
Touchy subject this is. It's to be expected, it affects our lives enormously.

I never had anything to say on politics, but seeing so many businesses shut down, work taken by foreigners, houses have been offered to them first (I know this), Brit workers fired and replaced and being told that another 29 million foreigners are now able to come over...really makes me worry for my and my family's future. Also that we have no control over this because, EU tells us what to do. You can see why I'm taking this stance? Big Grin
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
Reply
#19
RE: Britain leaving the EU
In an ideal world I'd be part of the EU (for trade and such) but I'd give them the finger when it comes to them telling us what to do. Guess you can't have it both ways.
Reply
#20
RE: Britain leaving the EU
(January 30, 2013 at 10:44 am)Ace Otana Wrote: Both. For example we've given around 70% of our fish market to the EU.

Are you talking about the EU regulations on overfishing?

These were regulations to preserve nature and aggainst polution and not economic, well.... actualy they limited the fishing economy because it forbid them to polute and overfish.

The same regulations also prohibited France from dumping nuclear waste between the coasts bordering your countries.

Or are you talking about something else?

Would be funny to see the French leaving the EU simply so they can dump nuclear waste of your coasts in you fishin eras again Tongue
I guess they would even do it if they could.

And it is a nice example of how it would harm your economy, because if one goes to a German supermarket, one has the choice between Scotish, Norwegian and Swedish Salmon.
When Britain has no treaty, the taxes will rise on the product making it more expensive and it will disapear.

Quote:Sounds nice, however the reality of the situation is much different. Economic collapse is what's happening. Do I have to drag you through a few towns and cities to see it for yourself?
Can you tell me the benefit of adding 29 million foreigners to a country that already has huge unemployment levels? Can you tell me the benefit of this country no longer trading largely to the commonwealth? Can you tell me the benefit of giving resources to the EU?

It doesnt only sound nice, it is reality. A nation determines it`s economic path by itself and no other country is allowed to interfere as long as the treaty conditions on no taxes for European exports and imports are broken.

This is why greece wrecked itself and why Spain and Portugal partialy wrecked themselves (the biggest amount of the wrecking done to the Spanish and Portugese economy was done by the wonderfull, happy, shinny and sparkly world of the free market).

Maybe because the commonwealth itself is starting to evolve and get it`s own market, Indias economy is growing, and the political stability of southern Africa has insured a recent surge of economic groath, aswell as Canadas economy has been growing.
And a country with a economy getting larger, naturaly exports more than it imports.
But in the end I cant resist to say, the commonwealth is not the EU`s buisness, it is yours, since you are it`s only European member since Ireland left.

And like it or not, Britain might have been the economical leading nation within the commonwealth, but it is losing that significance to developing countries like India.



Quote:Another bailout? Can the other EU countries afford this? In this economic climate?

I was not talking about a bailout, investments into poor regions by the Eu usualy mean investments into inferstructure and loans to buisnesses.

Another bailout? I dont know. I hope not dough, I hope Portugal and Spain will have the power to get out of that mess by themselves.

Why are you so concerened anyway?
The Lion share of the Bailout money is given by Germany, Netherlands, Finland and France.
The Uk hardly contributed anythin to that, they only contribute to the funds given to poor regions within the EU.

Quote:Then it's news to me. And farewell to their economy if what you're saying is true.

You dont seem to not get it, Norway handles it`s economy itself.
Eu legislation doesn`t determine how a country has to run it`s economy, it only abolishes taxes on inter european comerce.

Norway by the way is rich because it nationalised it`s oil reserves and unlike Saudi arabia didn`t build useless palaces but a perfect inferstructure and social and educational system.


Quote:You're talking about human rights, bit different from forcing a free nation to join the UESSR. The majority wanted us to stay out of the EU, still do. The French voted no on EU, the EU demanded another vote. The EU has resulted to bullying, same with Greece, Ireland. A lot of people in these countries don't want to be part of the EU. Start a poll in Greece or Spain, see what you get. Ask the people if they voted to join the EU and if they want to leave it. Will you allow them a referendum or deny them it?

I am talking about human rights here. But it is the same principle.
Why let Francoise the fundamentalist cathoolic farmer with and IQ of 79 who thinks that black people are used by jews to run the world and that muslims want to take his pork and who has never left the Provaunce decide what would be the best path for his country to take:
In deregulating the finacial market and privatising the public sector of his country?

Do you think he even knows what that would mean?

Do you think, Anna Lichtenberger, the 25 year old Berlin college student with dreads and hemp clothes, who is a vegan and posts anti corporate nonsence on (irony) faceboock using her I-pad, knows how a social system must be built up and how inferstructure must be arranged to provide equal acces to it by to all citizens?

I am more in support of a representative Republic on that point.
Because if the public is displeased, it can always vote a next time or collect the signitures for a referendum.


Quote:UKIP isn't racist, I'm not sure it has nothing to do with homophobia or sexism.
Many UKIP members were once conservative, they split off and formed their own political group in response to the EU. Stating that joining it was unfair, undemocratic and that we should be allowed a referendum, for which I support.
If UKIP gives us a referendum, that's a step in the right direction. I won't vote for Lab, Lib or Con. They've shown how corrupt they are.

I didn`t say it was racist. I said it was homophobic and gave an example.

[/quote]

(January 30, 2013 at 10:44 am)Ace Otana Wrote: http://youtu.be/kM8mMQ6l47I?t=38s

Angry

What does this "zionisation" thing mean in the beggining of this vid!!!??

Have you looked at the channel of the user who uploaded this vid?!?!?!
Have you seen the other vids he uploaded!?!?!?!?

It is an antisemetic christian Russian orthodox conspiracy nut channel!!!!!!!!!!!!:



I hope you are not seeing a antisemetic piece as a legitemate political comment?!

Angry

The narraters entire point brakes together when he argues that EU officials arent ellected, because they are.

And nations in the EU still have their sovereignty. Why do you think you went to Iraq without European support?
I am not saying that was a wise decision, but it was a svereign one.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Is there a continent in history where Britain never went too? Sweden83 21 1039 December 5, 2020 at 2:54 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  Anyone leaving if Trump wins? onlinebiker 39 2265 October 27, 2020 at 5:35 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Britain's Russia Collusion Scandal Foxaèr 3 588 June 23, 2018 at 7:45 am
Last Post: LastPoet
  Petition: second referendum for leaving the EU robvalue 37 4199 June 25, 2016 at 1:22 pm
Last Post: Tiberius
  I'm leaving Ron Paul land Videodrome 28 3088 February 12, 2016 at 8:25 pm
Last Post: Aegon
  Eric Pickles: Britain still a Christian nation – get over it zebo-the-fat 3 1244 April 7, 2014 at 4:13 pm
Last Post: zebo-the-fat
  David Cameron says Britain is a Christian country. downbeatplumb 10 5761 December 16, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Last Post: TheDarkestOfAngels
  Residents of Britain: Take back your freedom! Tiberius 6 2101 July 8, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Last Post: Jaysyn
  One of the reasons we won't be leaving Iraq anytime soon. Dotard 3 1570 April 8, 2010 at 11:27 pm
Last Post: Disinter
  Church schools in Britain butterfingersbeck 12 6167 February 12, 2009 at 8:43 am
Last Post: Kyuuketsuki



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)