Britain leaving the EU

[Ace Otana]

Are you talking about the EU regulations on overfishing?

These were regulations to preserve nature and aggainst polution and not economic, well.... actualy they limited the fishing economy because it forbid them to polute and overfish.

No no no, you're not getting it. Ok, try this. Let's say UK has a coal mine, now split it 30-70%. UK keeps the 30, but gives EU the 70.
That affects our economy. Get it?

When Britain has no treaty, the taxes will rise on the product making it more expensive and it will disapear.

Actuall no, we won't have to give away any resource to he EU, we'd be able to trade with whom ever we want (you know, before we joined the EU) and we'd be much better off as a result.
The EU doesn't want the UK to leave, they're gaining so much from us, at our expense.

It doesnt only sound nice, it is reality. A nation determines it`s economic path by itself and no other country is allowed to interfere as long as the treaty conditions on no taxes for European exports and imports are broken.

Not when it's part of the EU. They tell us who we can trade with and who we can't trade with. They essentially control our economic path. Not if we're independent.

This is why greece wrecked itself and why Spain and Portugal partialy wrecked themselves (the biggest amount of the wrecking done to the Spanish and Portugese economy was done by the wonderfull, happy, shinny and sparkly world of the free market).

Actually they went down hill after joining the EU. The same with this country.

And like it or not, Britain might have been the economical leading nation within the commonwealth, but it is losing that significance to developing countries like India.

Oh I wonder why that is?......

I was not talking about a bailout, investments into poor regions by the Eu usualy mean investments into inferstructure and loans to buisnesses.

Which isn't working as I said.

I hope Portugal and Spain will have the power to get out of that mess by themselves.

As long as they're in the EU, not likely.

The Uk hardly contributed anythin to that, they only contribute to the funds given to poor regions within the EU.

Total nonsense, we've given too much! How many people have we let in, given jobs, houses and even left our own with nothing? How many billions and billions have we given to the EU from tax payers money, just to be told what to do by a foreign power? Far too much.

I am more in support of a representative Republic on that point.
Because if the public is displeased, it can always vote a next time or collect the signitures for a referendum.

The unelected officials of the EU can't be sacked, did you know that? If having unelected officials dictate terms and even bully others to do their will, then fuck your "republic".

I didn`t say it was racist. I said it was homophobic and gave an example.

No party is perfect, it's the next best thing in my mind. UKIP also denies global warming, however they (I think) may be the right ones to correct our economy issues, as well as our border control.

The Russian in the video - I don't know him, I just agreed with what he said regarding the EU. Please don't take things out of context like that, it really doesn't make you look too good.

[Something completely different]

Before I respond, I would like to know if you see the vid you previously posted, which contains antisemetic material and comes from a source which uploads antisemetic and anti-western material as a legitemate source?

If yes, I will no longer reply.


I pointed these things out after I watched it and edited it into my previous post which you might have overlooked.

[Ace Otana]

Before I respond, I would like to know if you see the vid you previously posted, which contains antisemetic material and comes from a source which uploads antisemetic and anti-western material as a legitemate source?

If yes, I will no longer reply.


I pointed these things out after I watched it and edited it into my previous post which you might have overlooked.

Not the pictures or where they come from, just the Russian who I agreed with on what he said about the EU.

Just for you and you're EU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgx9Q_AFJE0

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Cato]

Before I respond, I would like to know if you see the vid you previously posted, which contains antisemetic material and comes from a source which uploads antisemetic and anti-western material as a legitemate source?

If yes, I will no longer reply.


I pointed these things out after I watched it and edited it into my previous post which you might have overlooked.

Try sticking to the content of the uploaded video. There is absolutely nothing in the posted video that is remotely antisemetic. Red herring.

Only the MEPs are popularly elected. This was adressed in the video.

[Something completely different]

No no no, you're not getting it. Ok, try this. Let's say UK has a coal mine, now split it 30-70%. UK keeps the 30, but gives EU the 70.
That affects our economy. Get it?

Britain doesnt have coal mines.

the EU has imposed a 70% income tax on british buisnesses?

State owned or privat owned?

really?

Actuall no, we won't have to give away any resource to he EU, we'd be able to trade with whom ever we want (you know, before we joined the EU) and we'd be much better off as a result.
The EU doesn't want the UK to leave, they're gaining so much from us, at our expense.

Yeah you could trade with anyone you want to and not trade with Europe anymore.

But that is one really big Could

And from what I hear from my press from statements form French and German politicians, some really want you to leave, especialy conservatives.

Not when it's part of the EU. They tell us who we can trade with and who we can't trade with. They essentially control our economic path. Not if we're independent.

Ahhh you mean the sanctions.

Do you really want to trade with Iran?

Ohh or do you mean the ban on importing overseas meat products and american gen manipulated food?

Actually they went down hill after joining the EU. The same with this country.

Actualy, Greece was failing before entering the EU and actualy lied to the Eu about it`s horrible financial situation so it could join in.
Actions which would actualy be punished.

And Spain and Portugal were deeply in trouble with the 2008 housing bubble and both had invested money in useless inferstructure projects, independently as a sovereign nation, which then failed.

Not because the EU told them to do that.

Oh I wonder why that is?......

Because in the 1990s India opend itself to the world economy and legalised foreign direct investment.
Outsourcing to India by english speaking companies followed due to the lower wages in India.

Which isn't working as I said.

Why? Because you said or because you ignore the recent economic boom despite crisis in Poland and the Czech republic which happened partialy due to EU investment.

As long as they're in the EU, not likely.

Germany gave bailouts to greece as an independent nation and not through the EU, under the condition that these failing nations would initiate mesures to lesson their dept.

Total nonsense, we've given too much! How many people have we let in, given jobs, houses and even left our own with nothing? How many billions and billions have we given to the EU from tax payers money, just to be told what to do by a foreign power? Far too much.

Jet it isn`t the lion share.

And what is it with this xenophobia? Problems with imigration?

The unelected officials of the EU can't be sacked, did you know that? If having unelected officials dictate terms and even bully others to do their will, then fuck your "republic".

Do you mean the judges in the high court who are appointed by the EU parlament or the comissioners apointed by the EU parlament?

They lose their jobs when parlament no longer appoints them, parlament being an elected body.

No party is perfect, it's the next best thing in my mind. UKIP also denies global warming, however they (I think) may be the right ones to correct our economy issues, as well as our border control.

Only because someone might be right on one issue doesnt mean that I give him my full suport

The Russian in the video - I don't know him, I just agreed with what he said regarding the EU. Please don't take things out of context like that, it really doesn't make you look too good.

I dont care who he is.
I like arguments delivered by reasonable people.

And if you would have further looked into the video you would have noticed that every single video he uploaded included a antisemetic messege.

"Jews run the CIA"
"Pussy riot false flag by Jews"

and so on...

I dont use the arguments by an antisemite even if they in some weird and very unlikely circumstances coincide with my views.

The EU is not a jewish conspiracy, as the other videos by that user states.

And I bet someone like you has better and more serious and democratic sources for you arguments.

---

Try sticking to the content of the uploaded video. There is absolutely nothing in the posted video that is remotely antisemetic. Red herring.

Only the MEPs are popularly elected. This was adressed in the video.

The content?

The picture at the beginning which shows the EU as a jewish conspiracy?!

I didnt follow much after that, because from that point it was clear that the rest could only be revolting.


Maybe you should look at some other vids that youtube user uploaded!

I dont see antisemites as legitemate source for an argument!!!

[Ace Otana]

Britain doesnt have coal mines.

the EU has imposed a 70% income tax on british buisnesses?

State owned or privat owned?

really?

Now you're just being deliberately stupid.

Yeah you could trade with anyone you want to and not trade with Europe anymore.

But that is one really big Could

And from what I hear from my press from statements form French and German politicians, some really want you to leave, especialy conservatives.

Actually leaving the EU won't prevent us trading with European nations, or any other country. Plus we won't have to pay the bastard EU pricks 53 million a day just to remain a member, and...we'd have control over our borders again. It's a triple win.

Ahhh you mean the sanctions.

Do you really want to trade with Iran?

Ohh or do you mean the ban on importing overseas meat products and american gen manipulated food?

Talking stupid again...

Actualy, Greece was failing before entering the EU and actualy lied to the Eu about it`s horrible financial situation so it could join in.
Actions which would actualy be punished.

Don't make me laugh. Funny how EU managed to turn the Greek government into a puppet one. The Greeks want out! Start a poll if you want.

Because in the 1990s India opend itself to the world economy and legalised foreign direct investment.
Outsourcing to India by english speaking companies followed due to the lower wages in India.

The stupid British government still gives India aid. Billions in fact. You know that?

Why? Because you said or because you ignore the recent economic boom despite crisis in Poland and the Czech republic which happened partialy due to EU investment.

Not surprised about Poland, many of them work over here, receive much higher pay than they would in Poland and return wealthy. Many foreigners are doing that. Milking the system dry.

Germany gave bailouts to greece as an independent nation and not through the EU, under the condition that these failing nations would initiate mesures to lesson their dept.

Yeah I saw that - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17176616

And what is it with this xenophobia? Problems with imigration?

Can I ask you something? Have you ever lost your job to a foreign worker? Have you ever had trouble getting a place of your own without foreigners taking it first? Have you watched your town/city's stores empty and abandoned and more going the same way?

Do you mean the judges in the high court who are appointed by the EU parlament or the comissioners apointed by the EU parlament?

You know the EU's presidents? Who elected them? Many officials got in without being elected.

Only because someone might be right on one issue doesnt mean that I give him my full suport

You know a better party that will deliver on it's promises on an EU referendum and not have all the downsides that many others have?

I dont care who he is.
I like arguments delivered by reasonable people.

Go to first page of this thread, I posted a vid there, different person. I think he's pretty rational.
Oh and if you have been watching the news, more potential civil unrest in Greece, Spain, UK and other nations are expected. Don't know about you, but I think people want out.

[Something completely different]

Now you're just being deliberately stupid.

Well, you said there is a 70-30 splitt of which the 70 go to Europe.
And since Fatcher closed your coal mines I guess you are talking about financial resources.

So does this really exist or did you make that up out of thin air?

Actually leaving the EU won't prevent us trading with European nations, or any other country. Plus we won't have to pay the bastard EU pricks 53 million a day just to remain a member, and...we'd have control over our borders again. It's a triple win.

Actualy, it would. Because your companies would have to pay taxes on whatever you export into a EU country. Like I mentioned about 3 times or maybe even 4. Because you dont have a trade agreement with any EU country, only the EU free trade treaty.

Talking stupid again...

How so? You said the EU determines whit whom you can trade?

Well yes, the EU forbidds the import of overseas meat products and gene manipulated food.

Or did you mean something else? Because there isn`t actualy anything else.

Don't make me laugh. Funny how EU managed to turn the Greek government into a puppet one. The Greeks want out! Start a poll if you want.

Wasnt the EU alone, it was the EU, the IMF and the giver nations.

Those who gave the money for the bailout, told the greek goverment that they could only have it if they interduced austerity mesures.

And it`s the greeks own fault.

Previously you said Greece went downhill after it joined the EU, now you say after the bailouts?

Greece went downhill since the 80s since it hav built up an uterly corrupted buisness and social culture which aquired massive dept.

The stupid British government still gives India aid. Billions in fact. You know that?

And India`s economy grows and exports.
And thereby suckes up every single job which can be outsourced.

So? It happened in China, it is now happening in India and it will happen tomorrow in Africa. It is called development and is something positive, since it spreads wealth.

If you think they can continue without British aid, vote for a party which will stop giving aid.

Not surprised about Poland, many of them work over here, receive much higher pay than they would in Poland and return wealthy. Many foreigners are doing that. Milking the system dry.

Do you realy think that the entire or biggest part of the polish economical rise came through poles in Britain??????????????????????

Yeah I saw that - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17176616

Yeah austerity isn`t nice. But unlike Portugal and Spain it`s the greeks own fault so I dont feel sorry for them.

Their goverment spent billions on worthless shit, was uterly coorupt, rich people paied no taxes, the public sector was hopelessly bloated and they had the guts to tell everyone that everything was alright, whilest living like this for 30 years.

From my opinion they dont even deserve the bailout, they but this mess on themselves and they should live with it.

Portugal and Spain were fucked over by events that their people didn`t carry any responsibility for, they deserve the money that we are giving to Greece.

Can I ask you something? Have you ever lost your job to a foreign worker? Have you ever had trouble getting a place of your own without foreigners taking it first? Have you watched your town/city's stores empty and abandoned and more going the same way?

Nope, never was.
Still it wouldnt make me nationalistic or feel supirior towards other nationalities.

You know the EU's presidents? Who elected them? Many officials got in without being elected.

The President: Emanual Barosso, from Portugal, elected by the officials in the EU parlament, who themselves were elected.
We have the same system in Germany where parlament elects the president.

And all comissars and ministers were appointed by an elected parlament.

You know a better party that will deliver on it's promises on an EU referendum and not have all the downsides that many others have?

?

Do you really believe leaving the EU will solve every problem the UK has?

I do have other political interests. The EU doesnt dominate the policies of a country because every nation is its own sovereign.

Go to first page of this thread, I posted a vid there, different person. I think he's pretty rational.

Yeah I am suscribed to him.

He builds his entire argument on the fact that Berlusconi and Papandreo had to leave office in their countries.

Papandreo offered a referendom on the EU after receiving a billion euro bailout by Germany, France and Finland.
Those 3 nations made it clear to him that they wanted their money back anyway if Greece votes out.
So he went and with him the referendum.

Do you know a bank where I can take a multi million dollar loan and then simply "chose" to not pay it back again?

Berlusconi simply had to go, I dont even think that I have to explain that.

So no, the union does not undermine other nations democracy as Pat so theatrically announced.

Oh and if you have been watching the news, more potential civil unrest in Greece, Spain, UK and other nations are expected. Don't know about you, but I think people want out.

I dont know, when I see greece in the news today I see them wearing nazi uniforms, which makes me think that they only produce nazi uniforms today.
Considering that they are still one of the corruptest nations in Europe and that most people there still dont pay tax, I think they should actualy be kicked out.

Considering Spain and Portugal, I see them protesting austerity and poverty and not against the EU.

There will not be some mythical "civil war" as your video proclaims, there is social unrest, which happens everywhere where there is poverty.

[Anomalocaris]

* Insanity x shrugs his shoulders

I don't really pay attention to these things.. I probably should but I don't.

Same. Kinda.

I live in the US so, naturally, I'm much more concerned with what happens with the United States. Our general foreign policy can be sumed up with two sentences: "Fuck what other nations are doing and fuck what works! I'm doing my own thing!" We don't want to work with other nations as much as we want to get them to work under us. So when I see another nation that may be taking baby steps away from the international community, it worries me some that our particular brand of stupidity is spreading.

I want UK should leave EU precisely because UK is a very important channel through which the US can influence EU, with UK gone the rest of EU would be significantly less susceptible to American influences.

[HorribleOffensiveScouser91]

Us Brits need to be honest with ourselves, ignore our national pride for just one second and realise we are NOT a world power, we are a tiny island and will become a declining country very quickly without the EU. I guess this is what happens with Capitalism though, our growing materialism can no longer be fed by our own resources and we now rely on a whole continent.

Like I said earlier, Conservatives won't be winning the next election, although I don't know who will because all the parties are equally out of touch with society.

[Ace Otana]

So does this really exist or did you make that up out of thin air?

Was trying to help you understand, so either you're just not smart enough or deliberately being silly. Either case, I think it'll stop responding to you after this post. I have to bring this thing to an end before it becomes too touchy.

Actualy, it would. Because your companies would have to pay taxes on whatever you export into a EU country. Like I mentioned about 3 times or maybe even 4. Because you dont have a trade agreement with any EU country, only the EU free trade treaty.

Still would be much cheaper than what we're doing now. Paying over 19 billion pounds a year to remain a member, not to mention giving away resources and letting in millions of foreigners when our economy is already declining.
What's to stop us trading with other nations? (No point answering seeing as I'm ending the debate between us)

How so? You said the EU determines whit whom you can trade?

Well yes, the EU forbidds the import of overseas meat products and gene manipulated food.

Britain can do that on her own. We're not incapable. It's just we've surrendered our independence.
The EU decides for us who we trade with.

Previously you said Greece went downhill after it joined the EU, now you say after the bailouts?

I didn't say "after the bailouts". All the EU is interested in is power/control. Germany bailing out another country independently has nothing to do with the EU, unless dipping into the Euro fund which will affect others.

And India`s economy grows and exports.
And thereby suckes up every single job which can be outsourced.

They're not being held back by the EU. Good for them.

So? It happened in China, it is now happening in India and it will happen tomorrow in Africa. It is called development and is something positive, since it spreads wealth.

They get wealthier but we get poorer.

If you think they can continue without British aid, vote for a party which will stop giving aid.

UKIP may do that. We should stop sending needless aid, our pensioners can't afford the heating bills, and the government would rather send billions to people who don't need it, rather give it those who do. We'd save billions by leaving the EU as well. More than 19 billion a year at least.

Do you realy think that the entire or biggest part of the polish economical rise came through poles in Britain??????????????????????

Nope.

Nope, never was.

Right, so what would you know?

Do you really believe leaving the EU will solve every problem the UK has?

Not every problem. Certainly help though.

every nation is its own sovereign.

Doesn't feel like it, 75% of our laws are made in Brussels, Brussels control our borders, our economy. We're being governed by a foreign power. I've lost hope for this country.

Think that'll be it for this debate. Too touchy to be honest. I try to avoid touchy debates, sometimes I'm drawn in, but do prefer to avoid them.
Such debates can be damaging to one's friendship.

No hard feelings old chap.