Britain leaving the EU

[Tiberius]

In your first response to my earlier post you stated "To suggest nobody would trade with us if we left the EU is ridiculous" this seems to imply to me that you branded my argument ridiculous.

My actual words: "The idea that nobody would trade with us if we were out of the EU is quite frankly ridiculous."

Bolding mine...and yes, I branded your argument ridiculous. Not you, as you tried to claim here:

...you brand anyone who opposes your opinions as ridiculous.

There is a big difference between branding someone ridiculous, and branding an argument ridiculous. One does not necessarily imply the other.

Furthermore, you just stated this "I have an issue with yours in as much as I disagree with it and find your argument for it ridiculous."

I never meant you branded people 'ridiculous' I meant that branding peoples opposing arguments 'ridiculous' on a debating forum is quite silly.

Yet you used the exact words "you brand anyone who opposes your opinions as ridiculous" (my bolding again). Is it just me, or is there a severe inability to type what you actually mean recently?

I don't see any problem with calling an argument ridiculous in a debating forum. The point of a debate is to criticize the other person's arguments. Calling one ridiculous is a criticism, no?

Would you please explain to me how you are NOT calling my argument, opinion or anything else ridiculous, when the statements I have quoted from you suggest otherwise?

I am. However that is not what you accused me of. You accused me of calling you ridiculous. I did not. Once you understand the difference between a person and an argument they use, you'll get this point.

If you're going to have a go at others from not expressing themselves properly you should do it properly yourself first. I'm not going to hang around in this thread to wait for your response of yet more contradictions and supposed 'corrections' .. good day.

Hah, I did express myself properly. I can't help it if you don't understand the difference between a person and an argument they make. First you accuse me of calling people who disagree with me "ridiculous", which I did not, and now you've changed your argument to calling arguments ridiculous. Make your mind up. I did one of those; I didn't do both.

---

And one does not simply assume that one has the capacities to express someones opnions for someone, for whatever reason one may believe that that person is originaly not capable of expressing his or her opinion. Which was clearly the case in the example I gave.

I wasn't trying to express someone's opinion for someone. I was expressing what I felt the attitude in the thread was. If I tell a dirty joke, and someone gets offended, it's not my problem if they read too much into it or took it to heart. If they respond as if I was making the joke about them specifically, it becomes my problem because they are now taking what I said and putting it into an entirely new context in which it was not meant. Likewise, I'm free to express how I feel the attitude of the thread is, and you are free to ignore or rebuke me if you think I've got the wrong idea. However, you should not take what I said and make the assumption that it was directed at you specifically, when it was presented as a general comment.

And even if it was not directed at me, I can still respond, if I feel if I have the arguments to.

Right, but you went further than that. You're bringing it up as an example of me twisting your words, despite the fact that it was a general comment, did not quote you, and was not even directed at you. By all means, respond if you think I've got the wrong idea, but don't act like I've committed some heinous act of twisting your words when I haven't even brought them up.

[Darth]

Hey, related question: As a british citizen by descent (though not ever a resident) with scottish parents, what do I get by having scotland/britain in the EU? Fairly sure I can't vote..., fairly sure I get the easy travel/immigration, which I plan to take advantage of, might have to do that quite soon actually...

I might want them to stay, at least until scotland devolves and hitches itself to the eu, so I get whatever the benefits I get are. But that's what's best for me as somebody wanting to move, it's not best for every brit (I don't count myself as one despite having citizenship and a strong enough accent that people here don't believe I was born here, I've never lived there). I'm of the opinion that it would be in their best interest to leave.

[Ace Otana]

I'm of the opinion that it would be in their best interest to leave.

19.3 billion a year to remain in the EU (expected costs of membership and unemployment benefits around 170 billion a year), 29 million more foreigners now able to walk in despite our weakened economy and rising unemployment. To me it's common sense to leave, the costs vastly out weigh the benefits.
"Don't pay any more than you have to" If the cost out weighs the gain, leave it and look for a better deal. It's perfectly logical and sensible.
But common sense is a rare thing nowadays.

So yeah, I'm of the opinion to leave the EU.

[fr0d0]

29 million more foreigners now able to walk in despite our weakened economy and rising unemployment.

What I think I'd say that were in is a period of redressing the balance.

For way to long, with our capitalist ways, we've raped the rest of the world. At some point the rest of the world was going to become sufficiently affluent enough themselves to have the ability to challenge for the wealth.

We can't force the doors locked and keep these now educated, wealthy enough competitors back.

Also, if our welfare system is that bloated that immigrants will take work for less money than we will, then we need to lower our sights a bit.

This is a capitalist system, and capitalists have to keep prospering. At some point everything must even out I think. We have the rise of China and then India to contend with and that impact upon the global economy.

[Zone]

If you're losing your job to foreign migrant workers who may not even be able to speak English then you probably ought to up your game, set your sights a little higher.

[Ace Otana]

29 million more foreigners now able to walk in despite our weakened economy and rising unemployment.

What I think I'd say that were in is a period of redressing the balance.

For way to long, with our capitalist ways, we've raped the rest of the world. At some point the rest of the world was going to become sufficiently affluent enough themselves to have the ability to challenge for the wealth.

We can't force the doors locked and keep these now educated, wealthy enough competitors back.

Also, if our welfare system is that bloated that immigrants will take work for less money than we will, then we need to lower our sights a bit.

This is a capitalist system, and capitalists have to keep prospering. At some point everything must even out I think. We have the rise of China and then India to contend with and that impact upon the global economy.

So what do we do, just let them all in? Many of the millions coming over are from poor backgrounds. Where will they work? Jobs are running extremely low, and if they do get into jobs, that's less for the rest of us. By continuing to do what we are doing, I can promise you one thing, things won't get any better, just a lot worse.

[fr0d0]

The capitalists are rubbing their hands together at all the extra profit to be made from the cheaper labour. They give not a stuff about UK citizens. They're in charge here.

[Creed of Heresy]

Jobs that once were in the US all got shipped to China, Mexico, Taiwan and India.

Now you guys are experiencing the same thing.

It's gonna suck, I promise.

[Something completely different]

Jobs that once were in the US all got shipped to China, Mexico, Taiwan and India.

Now you guys are experiencing the same thing.

It's gonna suck, I promise.

not true.

That process happened here earlier before it happened in the US.
The current issue is that with the fall of the iron curtain, there is cheaper labor in the east.
In a way, history is simply repeating itself.

[Ace Otana]

The capitalists are rubbing their hands together at all the extra profit to be made from the cheaper labour. They give not a stuff about UK citizens. They're in charge here.

True, corruption is always playing a huge role. To let in all those millions, involves giving away our nation. Already feels like that really. There is no 'British pride' left. Great Britain has finally fallen to a foreign power. Churchill must be spinning in his grave. Great nations don't typically fall from without but from within. Betrayal/corruption.

In a way, history is simply repeating itself.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.