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Why Does God Need A Creator?
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 (February 19, 2013 at 8:22 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Proof, empirical proof of the xtian God is not possible by definition. Belief in God is only possible through faith. If it were possible to prove his existence independantly the Xtian God would cease to exist, do you see. Isn't that the same god that's reported to have talked directly with Abraham, Moses and some others? Oh, yeah... OT stuff doesn't apply... -.-'  (February 16, 2013 at 6:27 pm)Zone Wrote: Why does the universe need a creator? The Big Bang was its creator. ![[Image: final1361807471121.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.forum-signatures.com%2Fwizard%2FSigs%2F2010%2Ffinal1361807471121.jpg)
 Quote:Proof, empirical proof of the xtian God is not possible by definition. Empirical proof of non-existent things is not possible by definition. So, that's consistent. ![[Image: 1126ckCOMIC-gm---god-god-man.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=s3.amazonaws.com%2Fdk-production%2Fimages%2F19999%2Flarge%2F1126ckCOMIC-gm---god-god-man.png)
RE: Why Does God Need A Creator?
February 21, 2013 at 12:01 pm
(This post was last modified: February 21, 2013 at 12:02 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 16, 2013 at 6:26 pm)chasingthetruth Wrote: He isn't bound by the same laws of existence that he himself dictated, why is it necessary for him to have had a creator? (for those who use this argument) All criticism of special pleading being handled from one angle, lets have fun with another- I'll grant you that such a creator may not be bound by the "laws of existence" that we know - but that doesn't mean it isn't bound by laws that we don't know of, and why have we discarded the need for a creator as a candidate in that unknown set of laws?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe (February 19, 2013 at 9:55 am)pocaracas Wrote: Isn't that the same god that's reported to have talked directly with Abraham, Moses and some others? Talked directly. Talks directly to me too. You still didn't get that this is written into the definition of God. Abraham, Moses and the rest also needed faith to believe. What is ascribed to God could always also be ascribed to chance, coincidence etc. it'sa matter of perspective. From the biblical point of view, the perspective of faith. RE: Why Does God Need A Creator?
February 21, 2013 at 1:27 pm
(This post was last modified: February 21, 2013 at 1:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Voice on the left, right, or stereo? Sex of the voice? One way convo or can you interact? How long have you been in communication? Does anyone else in your family also have this sort of experience?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (February 19, 2013 at 9:55 am)pocaracas Wrote:Ah, the Babel Fish argument.(February 19, 2013 at 8:22 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Proof, empirical proof of the xtian God is not possible by definition. Belief in God is only possible through faith. If it were possible to prove his existence independantly the Xtian God would cease to exist, do you see. Then what about the New Testament, where God goes so far as to assume a human form and perform miracles to prove his divinity? Wouldn't that rob witnesses of these events of their faith by providing proof? Or even the Bible itself could be considered proof, however flimsy. So by your argument, in order to truly believe based on faith, one must never read the Bible or even be told about Jesus, but have to randomly guess on their own that there was once a man named Jesus who was in fact an embodiment of the one true god who dies for our sins. Besides, who says the existence of a creator can only be known via faith? Oh, that's right...people who have no evidence for the existence of their creator but nonetheless insist he's real. Rather convenient, eh?
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe RE: Why Does God Need A Creator?
February 21, 2013 at 8:34 pm
(This post was last modified: February 21, 2013 at 8:41 pm by fr0d0.)
Who? Just everyone of that faith. Did everyone who met Jesus have to believe that he was God? Did they think that was proof?
You yourself are proof. Everything in this reality is proof. All of it came from God. So do you believe that or do you still need faith? Do you need intellectual assention to believe it? I would suggest that you do. Perhaps you're different. Are you able to make your own mind up? Can you read the Bible and still be free to chose to believe or not believe? Tell me please, does any of this constitute objective proof to you, as you just said that it did? (February 21, 2013 at 8:34 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You yourself are proof. Everything in this reality is proof. All of it came from God. If you logic like fr0d0, the fact that your car exists proves that it was manufactured by Toyota, even though careful analysis of logos, decals, manuals, and documentation indicates that your car is manufactured by Ford.
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe RE: Why Does God Need A Creator?
February 21, 2013 at 8:56 pm
(This post was last modified: February 21, 2013 at 9:09 pm by fr0d0.)
Thanks for your support Ryan. I think I put it better this time though.
Perhaps a better analogy would be the automotive industry made the car/Ford made the car. Both answers are true. You exist via a complex series of naturally occurring events/those naturally occurring events = God. If, after all, I believe God to be the creator and sustainer of all things, shouldn't this reality all come from him? It's Just another way of putting it. That before we even address the subject of how we come to hold our different world views. |
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