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March 11, 2013 at 11:24 pm (This post was last modified: March 11, 2013 at 11:25 pm by Darkstar.)
(March 11, 2013 at 11:01 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Darkstar, plenty of people can demonstrate that.
Just like psychics...when it comes down to it, they always fail the scientific tests quite definitively.
(March 11, 2013 at 11:01 pm)jstrodel Wrote: But can you demonstrate the truth of nuclear physics in a history library?
Noooooo.....so?
(March 11, 2013 at 11:01 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Why not? So that means that nuclear physics must be false because it can't be demonstrated in a history lab. Of course this is fallacious.
And....your point? Did I ask someone to demonstrate the occult in a history lab (whatever a history lab is...)
(March 11, 2013 at 11:01 pm)jstrodel Wrote: The spiritual world is real, light and dark. I would highly recommend that you not involve yourself in the dark part of it, but it is real.
You don't need to warn me. I couldn't involve myself (or anyone else, for that matter) in it even if I tried.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
My point is that you can't impose some sort of external arbitrary standard on knowing the truth of whether the spiritual world exists anymore than you can use a history library to know whether quantum physics is true or not? Why not? But history is science? Quantum physics isn't provable by science!
Of course this is a trick. You can live in a culturally constructed probabilistic guessing game all your life if you want to. Don't pretend that you have the answers though, because you can say, with a North Eastern accept, "We don't know". If you don't know, you don't know. Leave it at that, what can historians say about quantum physics: "We don't know - apart from their work".
At least don't be haughty about it. I have experienced the supernatural for years and years. You don't have to believe me, but don't say that science has disproved it. Science could not disprove the reality of spirits anymore than history could disprove the reality of quantum physics.
March 11, 2013 at 11:52 pm (This post was last modified: March 11, 2013 at 11:53 pm by Darkstar.)
(March 11, 2013 at 11:44 pm)jstrodel Wrote: I have experienced the supernatural for years and years. You don't have to believe me, but don't say that science has disproved it. Science could not disprove the reality of spirits anymore than history could disprove the reality of quantum physics.
Right, as in it literally can't disprove it because it is unfalsifiable. I am only saying that science has found no evidence of it, though you seem to be certain of it's reality. What are these "experiences" you refer to? And how easily could they be explained by natural phenomenon...and is it possible to prove that spirits exist (using any method)?
And...I'm not trying to sound arrogant, so sorry if I do. Or is mere continued disagreement arrogance to you?
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
March 12, 2013 at 12:01 am (This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 12:01 am by jstrodel.)
Not arrogance, I appreciate your honesty.
I was involved in a demonic ritual in which I told an evil spirit that it could rule over me. I gave the evil spirit dominion over me through a sexual ritual. During this time, I would spend long periods of time communicating with evil spirits, who would move and influence the world around me. I would feel the spirits touch me and talk to me.
For 3 years I did not have control over my body. I would walk around, and try and move my arms and hands and try as hard as I could to stop myself from moving around and I could not do so. I have felt many evil spirits try and hold on to me. They possessed my body for several years, like I said. I collected disability because I could not work. I could feel the spirits inside of me.
You will probably reduce this to some sort of psychiatric issue. I understand that people do this, but maybe just leave the possibility that what I am saying is true. I know that I cannot prove it to you over the computer, but my experience is real.
Have you ever spent years and years of your life not being in control of your body because evil spirits were controlling you the entire time? I promise you it is real. I would give you my phone number if you personal messaged me it and tell you more about all this if you care, it is very strange and evil, but I promise you it is real.
I would urge you to not go near the occult and also to not promulgate superstitions against it. Because science cannot study something does not mean it is not understandable some other way.
March 12, 2013 at 5:41 am (This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 5:43 am by FallentoReason.)
Magicians earn a living by giving people an experience that they can't deny: "he apparently did saw that lady in half!" Because this experience is real from the audience's perspective, does it then follow that she was actually sawn in half, or are there other explanations?
Replace the sawing trick with your demonic experiences. There's other explanations for what you have been through, not just an explanation within the context of the scribblings of desert dwellers 2500+ years ago.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
That is your opinion, you cannot give any evidence for that statement FallentoReason nor against the millions of other people who have had similar experiences
March 12, 2013 at 2:21 pm (This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 2:23 pm by Darkstar.)
(March 12, 2013 at 12:46 pm)jstrodel Wrote: That is your opinion, you cannot give any evidence for that statement FallentoReason nor against the millions of other people who have had similar experiences
With magicians? Oh, and that's an argument ad populum, just so you know.
EDIT: Just wondering; are these "millions of people" another statistic you made up on the fly? And you also didn't say how one could prove it to be real, you simply said that science can't.
No it isn't. It is true that what millions of people believe at any given time is not really evidence for that thing being true. This is different from what people testify to the truth of.
If there are many separate testimonies to a certain event happening, this is considered historical evidence, just as more testimonies to an event that they witnessed is evidence for it. This is different from saying "50 million McCain supporters must be right"
This is not the same thing as the experience of millions of people. Would you say that the experience of millions of people saying that they have a father is evidence that there are millions of fathers?
The difference is that belief is different from experience. Human testimony of events is taken to be authoritative in knowing the world.
March 12, 2013 at 2:40 pm (This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 2:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 12, 2013 at 12:01 am)jstrodel Wrote: I was involved in a demonic ritual in which I told an evil spirit that it could rule over me. I gave the evil spirit dominion over me through a sexual ritual. During this time, I would spend long periods of time communicating with evil spirits, who would move and influence the world around me. I would feel the spirits touch me and talk to me.
A ritual maybe, but I'd bet the farm that there were no demons involved or present. Even if you wanted to give a demon (or anything) "dominion over you" the giftee would be unable to avail themselves of said gift- you aint got no strings..to hold you down. Communicating? Left right, stereo, male or female, anyone else in your family had this experience? Lastly, if someone was touching you at this ritual, I'd bet it wasn't any "demon".
Quote:For 3 years I did not have control over my body. I would walk around, and try and move my arms and hands and try as hard as I could to stop myself from moving around and I could not do so. I have felt many evil spirits try and hold on to me. They possessed my body for several years, like I said. I collected disability because I could not work. I could feel the spirits inside of me.
I think it's probably much healthier in the long run to face the consequences and guilt of your actions head on rather than inventing elaborate magical realms filled with ill-defined magical creature in order to stall eventual catharsis and/or lie to a bunch of people on the internet. I suppose I could be kind and refer to this as pious embellishment or trollish imp-dom rather than outright deceit....but meh
Quote:You will probably reduce this to some sort of psychiatric issue. I understand that people do this, but maybe just leave the possibility that what I am saying is true. I know that I cannot prove it to you over the computer, but my experience is real.
I doubt you had the experience, but supposing that you did, yes, that's what it would be reduced to.
Long story short-
Quote:Have you ever spent years and years of your life not being in control of your body because evil spirits were controlling you the entire time?
No, and neither have you.
Quote:I promise you it is real. I would give you my phone number if you personal messaged me it and tell you more about all this if you care, it is very strange and evil, but I promise you it is real.
.....or you'll send me my money back?
Quote:I would urge you to not go near the occult and also to not promulgate superstitions against it. Because science cannot study something does not mean it is not understandable some other way.
Oh woe betide the family of this poor boy lost to magic and tomfoolery. Let him be a lesson, a cautionary tale to them what might conjure the spirits or throw the bones
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March 12, 2013 at 2:42 pm (This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 2:42 pm by Darkstar.)
(March 12, 2013 at 2:29 pm)jstrodel Wrote: No it isn't. It is true that what millions of people believe at any given time is not really evidence for that thing being true. This is different from what people testify to the truth of.
Now, if I remember you correctly, you said that you and your friends were addicted to hard drugs at the time. Keeping that in mind...
(And I still don't know where you get this "millions" from)
