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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 2:13 pm
(March 12, 2013 at 9:26 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: It reminds me of how you can have serial adulterers in the GOP (Giuliani, McCain, Gingrich, et al) puff up their chests about "family values" and "defending traditional marriage". You can point out to Christians that they're hypocrites and they respond "yeah, but we're all sinners".
That is hypocritical, but the relationship between Christianity and politics is not really the same as having leaders with a high level of integrity. That is important, but Christians would rather have hypocritical politicians than have a country that is ruled by secular humanism. This seems reasonable to me, although it is ugly to see all of the hypocrites use theocratic language to build up their base.
I am not for theocracy, but I am also not for authoritarian humanism, which will sweep away America if it is not checked faster than you can say "democratic socialism"
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 2:30 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 2:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Just what do you think authoritarian humanism would entail? Humanism being a collection of things which stresses the value of human beings. What would authoritarian humanism look like, governments rigorously and forcefully stressing the value of human beings?
:runs for the hills:
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 2:32 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 2:34 pm by jstrodel.)
(March 12, 2013 at 2:30 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Just what do you think authoritarian humanism would entail? Humanism being a collection of things which stresses the value of human beings. What would authoritarian humanism look like, governments rigorously and forcefully stressing the value of human beings?
:runs for the hills:
Probably it would look like the government taxing people at very, very high rates and using it to support social programs that the people didn't want to pay for, and ignoring the ways that people already deal with those issues in their communities. Actually, that is what is happening right now.
The state wants to force people to pay for things that many people don't want, money that explicitly goes to secular programs that cannot be easily used for religious programs.
This is very authoritarian.
It would also force people to accept political correctness as an enforced, public morality, as it is presently done in universities. Try working at a university and writing a book about why homosexuality is wrong. They will say it is hate speech. They have "non-discrimination laws" that make it "illegal" to discriminate against anyone, except the 80% of Americans who are Christian and others who are religious.
Not all atheists are liberal fascists, but some are.
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 2:47 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 2:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
What do taxes have to do with humanism? I think you might be lumping all the "dirty words" together into a convenient holding place, some of them may get confused in the process.
A for-profit gov, for example, could raise their money any way they saw fit - support a social program - and that would still seem t fall within the remit of what you think humanism means - social programs-. Would that be a problem?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 2:49 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 2:54 pm by Darkstar.)
(March 12, 2013 at 2:32 pm)jstrodel Wrote: The state wants to force people to pay for things that many people don't want, money that explicitly goes to secular programs that cannot be easily used for religious programs. (Regardless of the accuracy of the first part of your statement) Of course money doesn't go into religious programs. Haven't you ever heard of "seperation of church and state"? Their being tax-exempt is bad enough.
(March 12, 2013 at 2:32 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Not all atheists are liberal fascists, but some are. Liberal fascists? *Sigh* Your ignorance is showing (again). And didn't you say were were communists earlier?
![[Image: True+Political+Spectrum+1.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-FIbvA0Fa5dw%2FUDckdPara6I%2FAAAAAAAAAIA%2FdbGRAMFgQlg%2Fs1600%2FTrue%2BPolitical%2BSpectrum%2B1.jpg)
Just realized...GODWIN!
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 2:50 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 2:51 pm by festive1.)
(March 12, 2013 at 2:32 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Not all atheists are liberal fascists, but some are. Isn't this an oxymoron? "Liberal Fascist"… Is that like a conservative communist?
ETA: Jinx, Darkstar…
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 2:53 pm
(March 12, 2013 at 2:32 pm)jstrodel Wrote: liberal fascists
You have a profound misunderstanding of what at least one of those words means.
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 2:58 pm
(March 12, 2013 at 2:53 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (March 12, 2013 at 2:32 pm)jstrodel Wrote: liberal fascists
You have a profound misunderstanding of what at least one of those words means.
I think he has a profound misunderstanding of the meaning of lots of words.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 3:08 pm
(March 12, 2013 at 2:13 pm)jstrodel Wrote: That is hypocritical, but the relationship between Christianity and politics is not really the same as having leaders with a high level of integrity. That is important, but Christians would rather have hypocritical politicians than have a country that is ruled by secular humanism. This seems reasonable to me, although it is ugly to see all of the hypocrites use theocratic language to build up their base.
I'd just like to have the cold comfort that as the government is kicking down my bedroom door and lecturing to me how I live my private life that my Christian masters are at least living by their own rulebook.
In all seriousness, go tell it on the mountain if you wish but don't tell it on Capitol Hill.
It's a simple rule and it will help us all get along.
Quote:I am not for theocracy, but I am also not for authoritarian humanism, which will sweep away America if it is not checked faster than you can say "democratic socialism"
I think you're blending religion and economic stances. There are quite a few atheist libertarians on this forum.
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RE: Atheists; what do you base your morals on?
March 12, 2013 at 3:08 pm
(March 12, 2013 at 2:32 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Probably it would look like the government taxing people at very, very high rates and using it to support social programs that the people didn't want to pay for, and ignoring the ways that people already deal with those issues in their communities. Actually, that is what is happening right now.
The state wants to force people to pay for things that many people don't want, money that explicitly goes to secular programs that cannot be easily used for religious programs.
This is very authoritarian.
As I have to see my hard-won tax money subsidizing churches, energy producers, big banks and the military-industrial complex against my will, I think all I can say is get the fuck over it.
Quote:It would also force people to accept political correctness as an enforced, public morality, as it is presently done in universities. Try working at a university and writing a book about why homosexuality is wrong. They will say it is hate speech. They have "non-discrimination laws" that make it "illegal" to discriminate against anyone, except the 80% of Americans who are Christian and others who are religious.
Not all atheists are liberal fascists, but some are.
Considering how Christians treated non-Christians (and, in many ways continue to treat non-Christians), you should hope we don't burn you at the stake, steal your property or deny you participation in society for having a different belief, yet here you are, whining about 'discrimination', none of which actually even exists. (not allowing Christians to force their beliefs on everyone else is not discrimination).
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