Muslims are starting to become annoying here

[EGross]

To switch it back to Islam.

This article by the Guardian speaks of the Muslim brotherhood, the ones in charge of Egypt, the less radical. They and other Muslim countries are claiming that they will not permit the International Communitity to dictate how women should be treated in their very religious countries. Some of these points that the Muslims resent being condemned are:

* Women cannot accuse their husbands of rape.
* A husband can beat his wife when she deserves it.
* In all cases of assault, women will continue to be held at least 30% responsible and the man needs to teach her this.
* A woman is not a man's partner, but he is her guardian. They will never be equals.
* A woman marrying a non-muslim will be a charged with a criminal action. (A man is permitted).
* A woman cannot leave the country without permission by her male guardian.

And the list goes on.

Muslims are not just annying in one part of the world, but everywhere. And until a fatea is issued condemning Osama and calling for his arrest and execution, then the entire Muslim world is nodding in silent assent to this.

This is the problem with a theocracy run by religious nuts (redundant, I know).

On the plus side, they are helping people to become athiests by their very fanaticism! (I recommend the book "Infidel" - a brillian read!)

[Something completely different]

Now you're just pulling shit out of your ass.

No one person, group, ideology or bloc gets to decide what society is for everyone. Everyone decides. That's pluralism. That makes you as unpluralistic as them.

Nope it does not, because those who reject pluralism, in my view (and in the view of my countries constitution) should not be legaly capable to obstruct pluralism by any means, be it through taking part in the pluralistic sociaty, or by forming a parallel sociaty (at least in organised form).

I didnt say "one group, person, idiology".
For me, the fundermentals of what is a pluralistic sociaty were laied out in my countries constitution, which was writen as a contract between opposing ideologies to have a common agreement on haveíng a open and free platform for everyone who want to participate in a pluralistic sociaty.

Please report for internment. Your values offend me and are a danger to a pluralistic society.

Nope. I defend pluralism, whilest naiv leftists and others who fling arround the smiley sticker of "tolerance for everyone" want to cuddle with religiously motivated rapists and neo nazis.

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By the way, this is my last post before heading to a bar.

So my next response may take a while or will not be understandable.

[EGross]

The fate of women in Islamic controlled countries...



Islam does not wish pluralism. It wants everyone to be Islam. The face of the woman disappearing is a metaphor for all who resists his domination.

Religious rule should be resisted by all.

[Angrboda]

Nope. I defend pluralism, whilest naiv leftists and others who fling arround the smiley sticker of "tolerance for everyone" want to cuddle with religiously motivated rapists and neo nazis.

Nope, no stereotyping or inflammatory rhetoric there.

By the way, this is my last post before heading to a bar.

So my next response may take a while or will not be understandable.

I wouldn't worry about it, you're not making much sense anyway.

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The fate of women in Islamic controlled countries...

That's all fine and dandy, except this discussion isn't about what happens in other countries, but what we should do about Muslim citizens and Muslim immigrants in our countries.


So essentially, your whole post — its entire content — was devoted to fanning the flames of racism.

Very admirable.

[Minimalist]

The fate of women in Islamic controlled countries...



Islam does not wish pluralism. It wants everyone to be Islam. The face of the woman disappearing is a metaphor for all who resists his domination.

Religious rule should be resisted by all.

Yes, because

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,...28,00.html

Haredi women attack 'immodest' women

Group of ultra-Orthodox women patrol Jerusalem market, order women dressed in tank tops to 'cover yourself up next time you come here.'

religious fanaticism is not restricted to muslims alone but is used by any group which is convinced that fucking "god" talks to them. Fuck 'em all.

[Dawud]

If I'm honest Germans it's arrogance that is your failing.

Experts who actually work int he field of studying the phenomena of Islam have a wildly different picture from that if yours - which co-incidentally dovetails perfectly with fascist views of minorities.

Even Islam working in my hometown was some sort of fluke or untrue to your vision of Islam - surely it is a model worth looking at I help our democratic pluralist societies. But no - instead: Kick them out, they are all anti democratic rape promoting barbarians or they are not really Muslims.

Hmm...

[Aractus]

Yes Aractus - I live in Glasgow and it's great!

Scary times if you think Muslims are inherently evil!

I say that Islam is inherently political. What do you say to that?

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go and live in an Islamic country? If Islam is truly a great religion, it should bring nothing but good things, right?

[Something completely different]

If I'm honest Germans it's arrogance that is your failing.

OH!!!!!!!!!!!! The Irony!!!!!!

I post a long and deep reply, with statistics and arguments.
YOU ignore every single statistic and argument I gave, open a new reply and call me arrogant.

Experts who actually work int he field of studying the phenomena of Islam have a wildly different picture from that if yours - which co-incidentally dovetails perfectly with fascist views of minorities.

And if that isnt enought. Where I post statistics, you post that some "experts", which of course - you dont name or give any details about, disagree.

Let me guess, these experts dont even exist, are made up by you, or arent even experts.

Even Islam working in my hometown was some sort of fluke or untrue to your vision of Islam - surely it is a model worth looking at I help our democratic pluralist societies. But no - instead: Kick them out, they are all anti democratic rape promoting barbarians or they are not really Muslims.

This is not what I stated you ......!

Is building strawmen and being an arrogant snob everything you can do?

I clearly stated that those who reject pluralism are to be kicked out, and not every single one of them!

You should not put statements in my mouth, which I didnt use!

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Nope. I defend pluralism, whilest naiv leftists and others who fling arround the smiley sticker of "tolerance for everyone" want to cuddle with religiously motivated rapists and neo nazis.

Nope, no stereotyping or inflammatory rhetoric there.

Well yes, I used stereotyps, much to my disadvantage.

Yet, I am certain that I have expressed myself in different less offensive terms elsewhere.

"That those who reject pluralism, should not be permitted to be part of it"

And I would like to know if you see something inflammatory about that?

By the way, this is my last post before heading to a bar.

So my next response may take a while or will not be understandable.

I wouldn't worry about it, you're not making much sense anyway.

How so?

[Dawud]

The fate of women in Islamic controlled countries...



Islam does not wish pluralism.

All this despite Muslims Jews, Christians and more living side by side in peace for century upon century upon century upon century upon century upon century....

You wish this wasn't a fact but you side with bigots who will never accept the fact that Islam has a MASSIVE history of pluralism as any major respected historian will tell us. It's just Internet loonies or bigots who've not found out and care little for the facts that perpetuate this racist lie that flies in the face of sincere and rigorous respect for finding out true history.

The fact of the matter is that you care bit one jot for history as long as it backs up your sick and twisted view of religion and religious people - you make me sick you silly keyboard warriors who probably haven't even been to a blooming library!

Freedom of thought yes but enforsing your view based on no research - recipe for disaster!

But you can't even see it cos you are blind. I live in a city that has a massive history of Muslims and non-Muslims getting on just fine - even if this was just the Only example then you (In your oh so holy and lovely and peace living and civilized and sophisticated respect for pluralism) should look to this exams to find out: ok how does this pluralism work without me forcing my differing beliefs on Muslims? But NO! You really just want to find a way to rid your space of Muslims because you tho j that they are less than you and you hate them.

Just because they have a few different beliefs from you doesn't mean that they are completely different from you (that's what genicidal Christians thought!). The truth is that on most moral and political matters you will be I. Total agreement with Muslims: more employment, live your family, help the needy, smiling is nice, feed the starving, have a safe society etc.

The reality is that Muslims love democracy too - quirk alongside different people, have friends and relationships with non Muslims and just get on with their day to day business - just like Jews. But you don't want to accept this reality - that there are Muslim school teachers, Muslim politicians, Muslim Doctors and dentists who love their pluralist society - you don't want to accept this reality cos you want to pretend...

And Lo to you because you are blind

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Muslims in the UK might be different - in that case: celebrate!

But you aren't looking for a pluralist society: are you?

Is that really what you are striving for?

Or, maybe are you just painting a false picture to back up a belief of yours?

If you are striving for a pluralist society then ask me how my city works... go on....

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Please

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PS the guardian article above doesn't stare the "facts" listed below the link

[Something completely different]

All this despite Muslims Jews, Christians and more living side by side in peace for century upon century upon century upon century upon century upon century....

Where?

Can you give examples or is this some fantasy of yours?

You wish this wasn't a fact but you side with bigots who will never accept the fact that Islam has a MASSIVE history of pluralism as any major respected historian will tell us. It's just Internet loonies or bigots who've not found out and care little for the facts that perpetuate this racist lie that flies in the face of sincere and rigorous respect for finding out true history.

You are ignoring the fact that non muslims were not treated equaliy to muslims under muslim rule, that they had to pay a special "non believer" tax and that the rest of the non muslim word was seen as "infidel" which is why the last kalifat constantly tried to march on Vienna.

seriously, learn some history!

The fact of the matter is that you care bit one jot for history as long as it backs up your sick and twisted view of religion and religious people - you make me sick you silly keyboard warriors who probably haven't even been to a blooming library!

Sais the one who ignores history to paint sunshine, rainbows and vanilla chocolate pudding over the inequality which non muslims suffered from in the kaliphates.

Freedom of thought yes but enforsing your view based on no research - recipe for disaster!

I posted statistics.

And the entire point was, that your people inforce their views.
Muslim women can run arround in their ninja outfits, and men with their beards.

Yet it is muslims who assault non vailed women in European cities.

But you can't even see it cos you are blind. I live in a city that has a massive history of Muslims and non-Muslims getting on just fine - even if this was just the Only example then you (In your oh so holy and lovely and peace living and civilized and sophisticated respect for pluralism) should look to this exams to find out: ok how does this pluralism work without me forcing my differing beliefs on Muslims? But NO! You really just want to find a way to rid your space of Muslims because you tho j that they are less than you and you hate them.

And exception does not prove a rule.

And again: I have posted the statistics which show that most muslims in Europe reject pluralism on the grounds of their islamic beliefs.

Just because they have a few different beliefs from you doesn't mean that they are completely different from you (that's what genicidal Christians thought!). The truth is that on most moral and political matters you will be I. Total agreement with Muslims: more employment, live your family, help the needy, smiling is nice, feed the starving, have a safe society etc.

wand what about: genital mutilation of women? forcing vails on women? being legaly mature at the age of 12? havin no individual legal representation at court as a women? banning alcohol? banning nudity? and on and on and on and on and on

No one has a problem if a person voluntarily decides to run a arround with a kitchen rag rapped arround the head. This is what that individual decides, and it has to be respected by a pluralist sociaty.

But, assaulint a woman who doesnt wear a vail and raping her because she doesnt wear a vail - has no place in a pluralistic sociaty!!!

The reality is that Muslims love democracy too

The Republic of Turkey and the republic of Indonesia - are currently the only functioning democracies in the entire Islamic world. And Turkey has problems with laws which infringe minority rights and the criticism of the discrimination of minorities.

Tunisia - sunk into a cicle of violent thughs beating up everything they consider to be antiislamic, together with political assassinations.

Egypt - ruled by the muslim brotherhood which cracks down harder on opposition that the former regime ever did and cut the powers of the countries high court - thereby giving the president absolute power over every single state institution.

Lybia - currently working out as the best amongst the arab spring countries. Probably because Gaddafi was so brutal that the fear of another regime is still big amongst the Lybians. But this does not change the fact that salafists have been roaming throught the country comiting crimes against those whom they call "unislamic".

All of these can be called democracies, because their goverments are democraticaly elected, yet political realities in these countries point into a different direction - especialy in Egypt.
And even if they are democratic - non of them is pluralistic.
One will have to see what the future brings.

There are only four nations on this globe which are officialy not democracies.
Even nations like China, Russia and Pakistan are officialy Democracies.
Yet, in China there is one party rule and only small local representatives are sometimes elected, in Russia a brutal oligarchy runs the country like a buisness, in Pakistan the participation within the political process is reserved to muslims only and the Pakistani army runs a great part of the countries institutions by ignoring whatever the goverment does.

- quirk alongside different people, have friends and relationships with non Muslims and just get on with their day to day business - just like Jews.

I am really interested why the muslim gives "Jews" as a specific example, but I guess I already know the answere.

There is a reason why germans are so popular in islamic countries and it has to do with the darkest chapter of our history.

But you don't want to accept this reality - that there are Muslim school teachers, Muslim politicians, Muslim Doctors and dentists who love their pluralist society - you don't want to accept this reality cos you want to pretend...

Oh, I accept that reality, and I welcome everyone who accepts and wants to take part in a pluralist sociaty.

I reject and want those deported who reject it, and these are not a minority.

And Lo to you because you are blind

No he is not, he reads the statistics and goes through the facts.

You dont, so it is you who are blind.

Muslims in the UK might be different - in that case: celebrate!

?

But you aren't looking for a pluralist society: are you?

Every single argument I gave, was an argument defending pluralism.
Everything you posted - was ignoring that most muslims rejected pluralism

Is that really what you are striving for?

NO. It is where I live and what I defend.

Or, maybe are you just painting a false picture to back up a belief of yours?

I have posted the statistics, which I have observed and from which I therefor build my arguments.

You simply ignore them, because you cannot argue against them and thereby defend the mayority of muslims living in Europe.

If you are striving for a pluralist society then ask me how my city works... go on....

Doesnt change the statistics which are about the mayority of the muslims living in Europe.

Like I said countless times: A exceptions doesnt prove a rule.

Or to put it in a phrase which your simple mind may grasp:

Your town, is not representative of all of Europe.