3D gun printing

[Something completely different]

All the information required to manufacture your own guns in the form of both 2d and 3d CAD files have been available freely for years.

http://www.cncguns.com/downloads.html

All I could find were weapons made out of metal on work benches. Yet non created via printer out of plastic.

Simply printing an arsenal is easier than making them over a long period of time in a workshop.
So the plans may have been available, yet the means of mass production didnt exist.

[popeyespappy]

All the information required to manufacture your own guns in the form of both 2d and 3d CAD files have been available freely for years.

http://www.cncguns.com/downloads.html

All I could find were weapons made out of metal on work benches. Yet non created via printer out of plastic.

Simply printing an arsenal is easier than making them over a long period of time in a workshop.
So the plans may have been available, yet the means of mass production didnt exist.

All you need to make the same lower receiver out of metal is an aluminum block, a drill press, a cross slide vice, a few bits and those plans. You don’t have to be Tony Stark either, but someone that knows what they are doing could easily turn one out in a day.

[Something completely different]

All you need to make the same lower receiver out of metal is an aluminum block, a drill press, a cross slide vice, a few bits and those plans. You don’t have to be Tony Stark either, but someone that knows what they are doing could easily turn one out in a day.

the printer can produce 2-4 of the same parts in 7 hours - which is faster.
the material (plastic) is also cheaper and nott as easily dedectable.

[popeyespappy]

All you need to make the same lower receiver out of metal is an aluminum block, a drill press, a cross slide vice, a few bits and those plans. You don’t have to be Tony Stark either, but someone that knows what they are doing could easily turn one out in a day.

the printer can produce 2-4 of the same parts in 7 hours - which is faster.
the material (plastic) is also cheaper and nott as easily dedectable.

The technology to print a functioning semiautomatic center fire rifle without the use of metal parts does not exist at this point in time. At least not on this planet. At the very least it would require one of these



this stuff



a gas tube



and a whole bunch of springs







All made out of metal.

[Something completely different]

So it`s making noise over nothing special then?

[popeyespappy]

Building homemade guns is something properly motivated people have had the ability to do for a long time anyway.

[Tiberius]

Laws may be created and mostly inforced by the goverment or better put the goverment - yet the inforcement is not necesserely a goverment thing.

Note that I said it was "part" of government. I never equated the two. Gun law is enforced by government; when we are talking about registration / restrictions on gun manufacture, we are talking about government. There is no sense to include private law enforcement agencies, especially when their jurisdiction may be illegal in these matters.

To rely on the supposed "honesty of citizens" is like hoping a fire stops burning rather than calling the fire brigade.
And how does one ensure that peopleactualy aquire a license first before printing guns, which can be done without anyone actualy taking notice?

Like it or not, but every law relies on the honesty of citizens. It is against the law to murder someone, but the government does not have some magic power that physically prevents people from committing murder. The government relies on the fact that most people are not murderers; they are honest law abiding citizens, and the laws serve only to justify the trial and incarceration of those who break the law.

Nothing prevents someone from illegally manufacturing guns, except for the integrity of those who do not wish to break the law. My point still stands though; criminals will illegally manufacture guns whether there are laws preventing certain methods of manufacture or not. This is a given. It is pointless to prevent law-abiding citizens from manufacturing guns if a proper process is adhered to.

arent you just practicaly declaring registration useless?

Not in the slightest. There are more law-abiding citizens than there are criminals. Gun registration still works for law-abiding citizens, and could work against criminals (e.g. a person is stopped with a gun, and it is found to be unregistered...thus the person is a criminal and is arrested).

And who has the authority to declare potential new laws useless before the subject under debate has even reached any kind of legal conclusions?

You?

This isn't a debate? As far as I'm aware, anyone can declare potential new laws useless; it's called free speech.

The manufacturing of guns without licence is illegal.

Right, and the people who are printing guns have a license.

And that does not help to prevent mass production for criminals or others.

Nothing does. Buying a 3D printer is not illegal, and one can easily find blueprints online. Even if there was a ban on 3D printing guns, there is no way to prevent people from doing it. Just as banning murder does not prevent people from murdering. All the ban does is enable the government to justify arresting / prosecuting those who break the law.

Printing guns will damage the arms market by making it possible for backwards morons to print low qualety versions of high qualety copyrighted rifles which still have the capacity of fireing 800 rounds beore breaking.
The 3D printer has it`s future in printing other stuff such as surgic material for hospitals and little things for a home in private use like dishes, cups and bla bla.
3D printers are not yet capable of producing highly sufisticated materials which can function over a long period of time.
And if they should one day be capable to do so, they will be nothing but a goldmine for parasites who dont give a damn about copyright.

One could claim the Internet damaged the music industry via file-sharing. That does not make the Internet bad, nor does it mean people who use the Internet for such things aren't immune from the law. 3D printing copyrighted files is a crime that falls under pre-existing copyright law. I fail to see how it requires new legislation, or how it relates to this case.

What has that to do with me?

Are you kidding me? You asked: "Can you show me who is doing that?!". I just gave you two links plus numerous others in a Google search.

I am not calling for the ban of 3D printing!!!

Who is putting words into whos mouth!

I never said you were. You accused me of thinking in extremes, when I was merely reacting to the positions that other people (including members of government) have espoused. I talk about banning 3D printing because the subject has already come up.

And since we are talking about something which can be done over the internet, people will by in large not give a fuck about registration.

Can you back up that assertion with evidence?

And people who own a methlab, believe 72 virgins are waiting for them, scream white power or want to overthrow the goverment in any way, will certainly not give a shit about a licence!

That may well be true, but it does not mean that the method of gun manufacture should be banned from ordinary citizens. It's the same logic people use to ban guns in the first place. If you ban guns, the only people who have guns are the government and criminals; neither of whom should have all the guns...

If you ban 3D printing guns, then the only people who can 3D print guns are the government and criminals; neither of whom should be the only ones with the ability to 3D print guns.

[Minimalist]

There are 300 million real guns on the loose in this country. "Criminals" have no problem getting them... in many cases they steal them from the supposedly "responsible" gun owners who think that leaving guns lying around the house is "responsible."

The people who worry me are the ones who aren't "criminals" until something snaps in their heads and they walk off to a mall or a school and start blasting away with the artillery that they acquired "legally" because of that fucking second amendment shit.

[downbeatplumb]

Guns don't kill people, bullets do.
You cant print off a bullet.
If you control the bullets the problem goes away.

[Creed of Heresy]

Well technically, even before the advent of 3D printers you could make your own gun. What, you think all guns are built on factory floors or something? Ever been to a hand-craft gunsmith? All you need is wood, the metals you desire to make your gun from, and the proper tools and you can make a pretty bitchin' gun with a few weeks of work.

Now, everyone's freaking out about 3D guns but I have to point out, as the resident gun-nut, how EXTREMELY unreliable these guns are. The one tested, shown firing 200 rounds, was NOT fully 3D-printed, but instead was just a zip gun with a lower receiver that was manufactured by a 3D printer. Wholesale manufacturing of the entire firearm would result in a ridiculously unreliable weapon; it would be just as likely to blow up in your face as actually shoot at the person you're aiming at. This is because the materials being used are not metal; they are polymers and plastics. Not just the frame; the entire gun would be polymers and plastics, and let me assure you, there are a dozen reasons guns are not constructed from those components, and it has nothing to do with looking stylish.

"Fear, fear," they cry, "for the problems of future are upon us!" I yawn and chuckle and resume cleaning my 1911 Colt, whilst cheerfully imagining the "drug cartels, terrorists, and criminal organizations'" thugs and foot soldiers blowing their own heads off using these useless weapons.

---

Guns don't kill people, bullets do.
You cant print off a bullet.
If you control the bullets the problem goes away.

Pfffft, yeah, ok, Plumb, because bullets are EXTREMELY hard to make.



I used to hand-load semi-wad-cutter rounds when I used to go to the target range, from scratch. All I needed was to buy the gunpowder, and if I REALLY had to, I could've manufactured my own out of potassium nitrate, charcoal powder, and sulfur powder, though I would've had to purchase a few tools to do so, which would've cost me maybe $100 for constant, easy access to gunpowder. In case you don't know, hand-loading is when you put together the bullets yourself "by hand," which means to do it outside of automated processes. Measuring, packing, tooling, all is done by the gun's user, since they will be crafting the bullet to the specification of their own gun. It's a minor boost in performance but it's quick and easy to do with a bit of practice, and anyone with access to copper and lead and the aforementioned materials can hand-craft their own bullets at a surprisingly efficient rate.

I'd like to see them ban or try controlling bullets (bullets of all things, THE hardest thing to track involving firearms, no less) to keep it out of the hands of the cartels and criminals and terrorist organizations. I'd love to see the stupified expressions of dumbfounded astonishment on their faces as these same organizations would still keep getting plenty of ammunition seemingly from nowhere, just like they do now.

Control the bullets...seriously, sometimes people on this forum don't think before they post...