Nobody believes abortion is murder

[The Grand Nudger]

And again, you rely on current legal status for your support. Double-fucking-standard cognitive dissonance. Holy shit dude, why can you see how fucked up that argument is?

My support for what? What argument? What could possibly be fucked up?

[Something completely different]

You so funny. They're not gills, never were and and never will be. Read your link.

(and, it may not have been you, but some people did insist that an embryo is/was a fish...)

A question for anyone who dares to answer. Is it unlawful to restrict marriage to only allow a man and woman to marry?
.

As much as it pains me, you are right.

I just looked it up again, the "gills" seen on the fetus in it`s early childhood are not reminants of gills and the darwinian interpretation is wrong. Yet I did pick that up in highschool, so I am certain that my schoolbooks must have been outdate.

Still, a 3 month old fetus does not have the right to destry it`s mothers life.

[Aractus]

Why? Because deep down they know that a fetus doesn't have the value of a human being.

I'm going to bring you up on this point. It is near universally accepted that at a certain point a foetus is a human being. Let's for argument's sake say third trimester foetus. Just about no one is going to try and argue that the third trimester foetus isn't a human being.

[Darth]

Much as it pains me, Daniel is right. I was thinking the same thing when I read the thread title.

[fr0d0]

Still, a 3 month old fetus does not have the right to destry it`s mothers life.

Nice spin!

[thesummerqueen]

Why? Because deep down they know that a fetus doesn't have the value of a human being.

I'm going to bring you up on this point. It is near universally accepted that at a certain point a foetus is a human being. Let's for argument's sake say third trimester foetus. Just about no one is going to try and argue that the third trimester foetus isn't a human being.

Most of the time we're not talking about late trimester abortions, though.

[KichigaiNeko]

Much as it pains me, Daniel is right. I was thinking the same thing when I read the thread title.

Yes Stu, Daniel IS correct. but then no one "murders" a third trimester foetus (unless you want to call medical intervention murder?) Usually they are called Premmy Babies and still can't survive ex-Uteri.

Have heard of "Premmies" being "born" from about 28 weeks I think. And spending the rest of gestation in an Hospital "Humidi-crib"

Any way this murder "argument" is irrelevant as an abortion is preferable only at 10 weeks or less. The lot of you going on and on about "murder" are just being emotive and really should take you hands out of your pants.

[Darth]

really should take you hands out of your pants.

NEVER!

[Aractus]

Kichi have you read this?

NT Coroner calls for abortion protocol

COMPERE: Now a story which may be disturbing to many. The Northern Territory's Coroner has called for protocols to be put in place in all hospitals and clinics in the territory to deal with an unusual situation. An abortion which resulted in the birth of a live baby.

The coroner's recommendation follows an inquest into the death of a baby born at the Darwin Private Hospital in July 1998. The baby's mother had been admitted to the hospital for a pregnancy termination but the delivery of an aborted fetus did not happen. Instead, a baby girl was born and died soon after.

Camille Funnell reports.

CAMILLE FUNNELL: It was a quarter to three in the morning in July 1998. Carey Williams, a registered midwife, had been called to one of the mother's rooms in the Darwin Private Hospital. The woman in the room had been booked in for a second trimester pregnancy termination. Nurse Williams was ready to help. She placed what she assumed was a fetus in a kidney dish and took it from the mother's room. It was then she heard a cry. It came from the baby in the kidney dish.

Nurse Williams told the Coroner's court she then realised the baby was older than the 19 weeks term she'd been told. Although premature, she says the baby was apparently health with no apparent abnormalities, its vital signs were good. That left Nurse Williams with what she described as a very big moral dilemma - what to do?

She said because the baby was making noises she couldn't just leave it in the kidney dish so she put the baby in a warm rug and checked the baby every 10 to 15 minutes. About 80 minutes later, at five past four in the morning, the baby died.

The Northern Territory Coroner was told the midwife had rung her supervisor seeking help while the baby was still alive, but no-one was available to help her. The Coroner's court was also told the midwife rang the woman's doctor, Dr Henry Chow, and told him the planned abortion had resulted in a live birth. The doctor's response, according to evidence to the court, was; "So?".

Today the Coroner found the doctor should have taken responsibility that morning. He should have attended at the hospital. Coroner Greg Cavanagh says protocols are needed to ensure that children who survive a termination are, at the very least, assessed for age and viability by a medical practitioner.

The Coroner accepted evidence that the baby, given its premature state, was facing an inevitable death but he says the deceased should never have been referred to as 'a fetus'. She had 18 minutes of life. Greg Cavanagh says the fact her birth was unexpected and not the desired outcome from an abortion should not result in her and others like her being perceived as anything less than a complete human being.

[CapnAwesome]

Why? Because deep down they know that a fetus doesn't have the value of a human being.

I'm going to bring you up on this point. It is near universally accepted that at a certain point a foetus is a human being. Let's for argument's sake say third trimester foetus. Just about no one is going to try and argue that the third trimester foetus isn't a human being.

I agree as well actually. There is a difference and I think an extremely important one, in which the fetus/baby can live on it's own outside of the mother. In the other abortion thread I made note of this and maybe should of here too. But when people say 'abortion is murder' they generally refer to all abortion. They're actions just don't back up this supposed belief.

---

I'm going to bring you up on this point. It is near universally accepted that at a certain point a foetus is a human being. Let's for argument's sake say third trimester foetus. Just about no one is going to try and argue that the third trimester foetus isn't a human being.

Most of the time we're not talking about late trimester abortions, though.

I agree, not only are we not talking about it, but they are a tiny percentage of abortions. I think third trimesters are banned except for the life or health of the mother anyway. So to try to apply when is not representative of what actually occurs, and use it as a reason to call all abortions murder, just doesn't make sense.