What is your alternative to abortion?

[Kayenneh]

Yes Kaye. It's a scientific distinction that I'm using.

I don't mind if you disagree. That's just the way I understand it.

I only disagree in the sense that the pill doesn't take lives, it just brings the odds of a life starting down to almost zero. And if we go that far, why not condemn periods and ejaculation?

I understand if you think that sex is only for married couples that the pill isn't precisely up your alley, and I even somewhat agree that it's not the contraception for everyone. The condom is much better, since it protects you from most STDs, which obviously the pill doesn't do. But I don't see any problem with two persons being in a long-term relationship having sex and using the pill as contraception in order not to get pregnant.

So at that point the sperm and egg haven't combined?

Oh, and in case that you don't know, the day after pill is only effective during the first 24h, after that it get's less and less effective until about three days when it doesn't work at all.

[fr0d0]

I only disagree in the sense that the pill doesn't take lives, it just brings the odds of a life starting down to almost zero.

It seems to work by breaking down the fertilised egg. Sources I'm reading are unclear. Once a sperm enters the egg and begins fertilising it is the point of conception scientifically I think.

And if we go that far, why not condemn periods and ejaculation?

What???

I understand if you think that sex is only for married couples that the pill isn't precisely up your alley, and I even somewhat agree that it's not the contraception for everyone.

You were seriously reading between the lines there! I guess it would be hypocritical given my stance here to promote use of the pill. I don't tell anyone else what to do though. I only make my opinion known here because we're talking about it.

Marriage is a representation of a natural commitment. I care nothing for the institution per se. Apart from a good thing that has been formalised. I have no problem at all with commitment outside of marriage.

The condom is much better, since it protects you from most STDs, which obviously the pill doesn't do. But I don't see any problem with two persons being in a long-term relationship having sex and using the pill as contraception in order not to get pregnant.

Me neither

Oh, and in case that you don't know, the day after pill is only effective during the first 24h, after that it get's less and less effective until about three days when it doesn't work at all.

I see that.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Marriage is a representation of a natural commitment. I care nothing for the institution per se. Apart from a good thing that has been formalised. I have no problem at all with commitment outside of marriage.

Hmmmm, I think of marriage as a sacrament, what God has united and all.

[festive1]

From online sources, it can take as little as half an hour for the sperm to reach the egg. I am uncertain if the pill works that fast if taken after the act of unprotected sex.

Depends on whether or not the woman is ovulating at the time of intercourse. Sperm can live for up to 5-7 days, so in at least some, if not the majority of cases, sperm never meets egg. As for the fertilized egg not implanting part of the issue, that happens naturally all the time. It simply gets passed as regular menstural flow. If anyone's curious, check out some TTC forums, you'll learn more about the female reproductive cycle than pretty much anyone would ever want to know. Sticky beans.

[Silver]

I think of marriage as a sacrament, what God has united and all.

Since marriage predates recorded history, I prefer to think of it as a secular ritual. Especially considering that one does not need to be blessed by any church or deity to be legally married. After all, atheists can legally marry outside the sight of god.

[Simon Moon]

Hmmmm, I think of marriage as a sacrament, what God has united and all.

In most industrial countries there are 2 parts to marriage. There is the legal portion, which is a social and financial contract. Then there is the religious ritual portion performed in churches, temples and mosques.

The religious ritual is not necessary as part of a legal marriage.

[Kayenneh]

It seems to work by breaking down the fertilised egg.

Emergency contraceptive pills prevent pregnancy primarily, or perhaps exclusively, by delaying or inhibiting ovulation. There is no evidence to suggest that either of the FDA-approved emergency contraceptive options, levonorgestrel (LNG, such as Plan B One-Step, Next Choice One Dose, Next Choice, and Levonorgestrel Tablets) or ulipristal acetate (UPA, such as ella) works after an egg is fertilized.

So, basically it only tricks the woman's body into thinking it's in a totally another day of the menstrual cycle.

Once a sperm enters the egg and begins fertilising it is the point of conception scientifically I think.

I think so too, but I don't consider one, two, four or eight cells to be a human being, though it has the potential, which leads me to this..

What???

Even though the sperm and egg are haploid, they all consist of the data needed to program a human, so any egg wasted in a period, any sperms that are ejaculated are just as much worth to me as the diploid egg/sperm cell. If life is in the sperm and the egg and no potential life should be wasted, having menses or ejaculating definitely falls into that category.

You were seriously reading between the lines there! I guess it would be hypocritical given my stance here to promote use of the pill. I don't tell anyone else what to do though. I only make my opinion known here because we're talking about it.

I'm sorry, this was my bad. I continued on a larger scale, not actually trying to target you with that comment.

Marriage is a representation of a natural commitment. I care nothing for the institution per se. Apart from a good thing that has been formalised. I have no problem at all with commitment outside of marriage.
---
Me neither

And this is why I like you more than most theists here

I think of marriage as a sacrament, what God has united and all.

Since marriage predates recorded history, I prefer to think of it as a secular ritual. Especially considering that one does not need to be blessed by any church or deity to be legally married. After all, atheists can legally marry outside the sight of god.

To continue this line of thought, Chad, in your opinion, when I get married to my boyfriend (we're both atheists, so it won't happen in a church), are we still sinful, even though we have had a wonderful relationship for four years (and hopefully many more years to come)? And this is not a trick question, I just want to understand your view on this better.

[Minimalist]

Instead of justifying my possition on the matter and explain.
I would like to know from the religious folk some things:


Which messures to avoid unwanted pregancies would you aprove off?

Which messures to prevent single mums from drifting into poverty would you aprove of?

Which mesures to prevent teen preagnacies would you aprove of?

Which messures to avoid parents from drifting into poverty would you aprove of?

Which messures to ensure that a child does not become a burden on the mothers carreer and life would you aprove of?

Which messures for unwanted preagnancies would you aprove of?




And finaly: at which age is it alright to watch a person die or kill a person?

All good questions, TGAC. If the shitwits are honest they will answer "STOP FUCKING." And that's because their silly-assed god said its a bad thing.

[fr0d0]

I don't consider one, two, four or eight cells to be a human being, though it has the potential, which leads me to this..

What???

Even though the sperm and egg are haploid, they all consist of the data needed to program a human, so any egg wasted in a period, any sperms that are ejaculated are just as much worth to me as the diploid egg/sperm cell. If life is in the sperm and the egg and no potential life should be wasted, having menses or ejaculating definitely falls into that category.

Thanks for your post Kaye.

I think there's a difference between potential in sperm and egg separately, and a combined human blueprint of fertilised egg.

That blueprint contained a person who's history just began. It's individuality already established. Termination from this point ends that course of events.

I can't get interested in taking the subject so far as to say that masturbation is murder, though I note that some do. The natural life of sperm and eggs is massively unproductive given the odds of success.

[Kayenneh]

I think there's a difference between potential in sperm and egg separately, and a combined human blueprint of fertilised egg.

Yes, there is a distinct difference in my ind too, but the fertilized egg does not a human make, and not all fertilized eggs will become babies due to e.g. miscarriage.

It's individuality already established.

On this I cannot quite agree. Though one's genetic heritage has a lot to do with the person, I still say that without environment one cannot say what individual lies within the code.

I can't get interested in taking the subject so far as to say that masturbation is murder, though I note that some do.

That's why I wrote ejaculation instead of masturbation, since the first can happen without the second.